Newtown-related rumors

[Sooeygun]

Do a search on twitter on #falseflag and you can see lots of nutty people.

STFU Conservatives had a sampling

[Keeper of the Mad Bunnies]

Well, a quick search reveals the following. Mostly from Wikipedia, but I am sure original sources can be checked.

• A 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, Miss., was halted by the school's vice principal after he retrieved the Colt .45 he kept in his truck.

Pearl High School ( October 1, 1997) Woodham was leaving the high school to attack a junior high when an assistant principal, Joel Myrick, apprehended him with his .45 pistol that he had retrieved from his car and held him at gunpoint until the police arrived.

• A 1998 middle school shooting ended when a man living next door heard gunfire and apprehended the shooter with his shotgun.

Parker Middle School dance shooting (April 24, 1998) "The shooting ended when the owner of Nick's Place, James Strand, intervened and confronted Wurst with his shotgun, ordering him to drop his weapon and later holding him at bay for eleven minutes." It is probable that the shooter was out of ammo at the time.

• A 2002 terrorist attack at an Israeli school was quickly stopped by an
armed teacher and a school guard.

Sorry, too many incidents in Israel to quickly search.

• A 2002 law school shooting in Grundy, Va., came to an abrupt conclusion
when students carrying firearms confronted the shooter.

Appalachian School of Law shooting (January 16, 2002) The two students were a police officer and sheriff's deputy. There is some contention as to whether the shooter was out of ammo and may have been surrendering when the armed students arrived.

• A 2007 mall shooting in Ogden, Utah, ended when an armed off-duty police
officer intervened.

This was already discussed. The off duty officer halted the shooting spree and the suspect was later taken down by the active shooter team. BTW - he was at the mall having dinner with his wife - a 911 dispatcher - who called in the incident.

• A 2009 workplace shooting in Houston, Texas, was halted by two coworkers
who carried concealed handguns.

Can't find any incident matching this.

• A 2012 church shooting in Aurora, Colo., was stopped by a member of the
congregation carrying a gun.

The member of the congregation was an off duty officer. Also, this seemed to be a spur of the moment incident in which no one in particular was targetted. The shooter pulled into the church lot, hitting a verhicle, and then began firing at the crowd coming to assist. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1450313.html)

[GenYus234]

So the way to stop mass shootings is to give police officers more PTO so more of them are off duty?

[lavender blue]

I wonder if there's any way of quantifying how many situations escalated (perhaps to the fatality level) because someone had a gun and started waving it around.

[Hero_Mike]

Originally Posted by lavender blue

I wonder if there's any way of quantifying how many situations escalated (perhaps to the fatality level) because someone had a gun and started waving it around.

While looking up gun laws by state yesterday, there was one notable example that in some state (I do not recall which), open carry was legal, but would often result in a charge of "disturbing the peace". There was the idea that no longer carrying weapons brought about a certain civility, even to frontier towns. Look no further than any depiction of Wyatt Earp.

Coming back to the issue of "armed response" from the public - there's probably more at work than just the legality of carrying guns. Misusing them brings serious consequences. People are reluctant to help someone who has fallen, let alone someone who is choking or having trouble breathing, for fear of civil litigation. Misusing a gun - even one you carry legally - carries criminal prosecution. Police training, and experience probably weigh very heavily in the cases where off-duty officers responded, but even in those cases it was very easy to do the right thing. Shooting has already started and victims are piling up - there's little point in hesitating. On the other hand, if I was in a public area and armed, I might also hesitate to draw that weapon to prevent a crime in progress, for fear of being misidentified as the "bad guy". When the police arrive, and the "true" bad guy shoots at the police, I'm just as likely to end up being a target. That's not cowardice - that's a real and practical fear of a situation getting out of control, and ending very badly.

[Beachlife!]

Originally Posted by lavender blue

I wonder if there's any way of quantifying how many situations escalated (perhaps to the fatality level) because someone had a gun and started waving it around.

Are you suggesting that people are commiting gun related crimes because they were originally trying to comit it without the gun, but a bystander forced them to escalate by pointing a gun at them?

[lavender blue]

Well, I wasn't thinking of that situation, more of the 'there was a fist fight and than someone brought out a gun which meant everyone else brought out a gun' type scenarios. Though I suppose there could be an armed robbery where they had no intention of shooting anyone, but then a bystander had a gun and things devolved from there.

I have no idea how frequent these scenarios are. I grew up near an area where the gangs always seemed to be having a mini-arms race and turning to guns as a first rather than last resort, so maybe my exposure to these things is biased.

[Auburn Red]

Besides didn't we have this discussion before that an armed public in Aurora would have resulted in more deaths since it was in a dark closed in space? Also, wouldn't an elementary school be the last place that they would want people to have guns? I'm just saying in neither of these two examples would anyone else having a gun help and in both cases they would certainly have caused more damage.

[Mouse]

Am I the only one who remembers a discussion we had on an incident in New York in which there was a shooting but it was later revealed that the victims were shot as a result of the police officers trying to take out the gunman? I think of that every time someone brings up the, "If they were all armed, this wouldn't have happened" bit. I mean, we're talking about police officers, people trained in the use of guns, and yet in that situation...just imagine, what it'd be like with a bunch of untrained civilians using weapons.

[snopes]

Comment: I just ran into this on FaceBook. "interesting. Chicago has the
strongest gun laws in the Nation yet in 2012 446 school-aged kids were
shot to death.
yea...gun control. the genius of stupidity.
nation of retards."
I tried looking this up and found extremist websites promoting this. Is
this true?

[lord_feldon]

As of December 9th, there had been 487 murders in Chicago this year. I don't think it's very likely that 92% of the victims were school-age children.

[mags]

Imagine how much higher the numbers would be without gun control. Genius.

[crocoduck_hunter]

No, that's lord feldon. GenYus posted earlier in the thread.

[Dasla]

Originally Posted by snopes

Comment: I just ran into this on FaceBook. "interesting. Chicago has the
strongest gun laws in the Nation yet in 2012 446 school-aged kids were
shot to death.
yea...gun control. the genius of stupidity.
nation of retards."
I tried looking this up and found extremist websites promoting this. Is
this true?

Not that they will, but this person needs to look at gun fatalities in other countries in the world why do these things happen in the US so much and not in other developed countries.

Nor that is never happens but it doesn't seem to be in the same numbers.

[snopes]

Comment: If you know a teacher, or have kids in a school, please pass on:

"A building has been designated to house the students from Sandy Hook
Elementary School. They are in the process of transporting desks, chairs,
supplies and so forth to this location. My neighbor is the president of
the Newtown PTA and we met tonight discussing what we can do to make these
children feel comforted upon their return to school. Please join us in
"The Snowflake Project"

We are asking your students to make and decorate a snowflake. We will hang
them in the hallways at the stark, new building where the Sandy Hook
students will be returning. PLEASE NO WORDS! We want just a cheerful,
happy (glitter and sparkle) environment for the students entering the new
building.
..
Please pass on to any teachers you think may want to participate.

When you send your snowflakes, please include a note to tell us where they
are from (your school, class, town, etc) to display along with your
snowflakes. You can send them to me directly, and I will give them to our
PTA."

Bonny Marsicano
22 Pine Tree Hill Road
Newtown, CT 06470

[snopes]

Comment: In 1982, Kennesaw, Georiga passed a law that required heads of
households to own a gun. From 1982 - 2012 there have been only 4 murders.
3 of those murders happened in a gun free school zone where guns were not
allowed.

[Lainie]

How many murders were there in Kennesaw, GA from 1962-1982?

And how is requiring someone to own a gun any less a violation of their rights than restricting their ownership of gun?

[Simply Madeline]

Originally Posted by snopes

Comment: I just ran into this on FaceBook. "interesting. Chicago has the
strongest gun laws in the Nation yet in 2012 446 school-aged kids were
shot to death.
yea...gun control. the genius of stupidity.
nation of retards."
I tried looking this up and found extremist websites promoting this. Is
this true?

Well, Chicago used to have the strongest gun laws in the nation, but the SC struck down Chicago's gun ban in 2010. 446 is about the number of gun deaths this year (up considerably from prior years, but I'm sure that has nothing to do with the gun ban being overturned). About 60ish were school-aged children.

ETA: Also, Illinois' gun ban was struck down about a week ago. I'm sure that won't increase the number of people killed by guns either.

[snopes]

Comment: In 2012, this many kids died from ...

Starvation 15,000,000
Car Accident 830,000
Drowning 175,000
Home Accident 2,800
Cancer 2,300
Abuse/Neglect 1,500
Gun Accident 500
School Shootings 23
Want to save chilren? Feed them

This is going around the internet because of the school shooting in
Newtown Conn and I don't believe these numbers are accurate at all..Please
post accurracy or not.

[firefighter_raven]

Newton wasn't the only US school shooting in 2012.

Feb. 27th,2012 - Chadron High school at Chadron, Ohio Thomas Lane (17) shot 6 students and 3 later died from their injuries.

April 2nd, 2012- One L. Goh (43) opens fire at Oikos University in Oakland,CA killing 7 and wounding 3

2 other shootings happened on school property but not sure if they would be classified as school shootings. One was a suicide attempt by a 14y/o boy in Walpole, NH that shot himself in the face in front of classmates and the other was a fired teacher coming back and shooting the headmistress in Jacksonville, Fla.