Damn the facts -- full speed ahead!

[BrianB]

Originally Posted by ASL

The military tends to not release that much detail.

Interesting. Unfortunately, it may make finding more info more difficult. However, I'm skeptical that incident like the one described in the email wouldn't become very widely known. (More on this in a bit.)

That being said, if we're to trust "early 2005" as accurate, according to CNN's casualty list there were 7 deaths reported in and around Hit, Iraq from January to June of 2005:
{ snip }
6) Sgt Joseph Stephen Tremblay (roadside bomb)

Thank you for this list! In fact, when I was researching this Sgt. Joseph Stephen Tremblay was the one who I thought was the basis of the incident. For example, the Washington Post mentions he was killed by a mine in Hit, Iraq. However, as this Military.Times.com article says (emphasis mine):

He was killed while driving his Humvee. The only information his family has at this point is that he either drove over a land mine or he was hit by RPG rounds.

So, no match with the emailer's account.

2) Lcpl Juan Rodrigo Rodriguez Velasco

I found several articles that just mention he was killed in an explosion. (See this CBS news story, for example.) The most detailed account I could find was this 22 January 2005 Laredo Morning Times article (note: PDF):

Rodriguez and his partner, Lance Cpl. Matthew W. Holloway, 21, of Fulton, Texas, were killed by an explosive device set by a terrorist in Al Anbar Province, Iraq, said Colonel Tim Hunter, the regimental commander for the 23rd Marine Regiment, after the funeral. Four others were also wounded in the attack.

3) Lcpl Matthew Wayne Holloway (roadside bomb)

As the link above explains Lance Cpl. Holloway was killed in the same incident. So while it's not impossible the roadside bomb was a booby-trapped child no news stories about either marine mentions that.

This article also addresses the general concept of children being used as decoys or, at the very least bombers being indifferent to child casualties in some instances.

Great find! My gut feeling is the emailer combined elements of this story with other incidents or simply misremembered this story.

This story also highlights why I'm skeptical of the emailer's story. For example, here you have a major general sharing this story with the press. I understand the professional reasons why the military press is circumspect about details. However, I can't imagine someone in the military wouldn't want to share the story with public.

Also, it's impossible for me to imagine that some news reporter with far greater resources than mine wouldn't have already come across this story. It would be a front page/lead story if it's true.

I would think: they might as well have just buried them in the road and blown the entire humvee sky high if they really had that much ordinance.

Thank you for your expertise! This is an area where I have very little knowledge.

So... If you're still curious

Very much still interested. Unfortunately, once I get interested in something I can't let go of it.

Brian

[ASL]

Originally Posted by BrianB

Interesting. Unfortunately, it may make finding more info more difficult. However, I'm skeptical that incident like the one described in the email wouldn't become very widely known. (More on this in a bit.)

Thank you for this list! In fact, when I was researching this Sgt. Joseph Stephen Tremblay was the one who I thought was the basis of the incident. For example, the Washington Post mentions he was killed by a mine in Hit, Iraq.

As far a mine vs. RPG... Let's keep in mind that even the reporters for the "Military" Times newspapers (under the Military Times banner there’s an Army Times, a Navy Times, an Air Force Times and a Marine Corps Times at least) are often civilians and even in the case of those with military experience they may have no clue what they’re writing about. I suspect (someone in) the actual military has a pretty good idea of what killed him, but if the official release was along the lines of "killed by an improvised explosive device" back in the days before “IED” was part of the American lexicon, a reporter might have assumed that meant some sort of mine or RPG (or at least that it was synonymous with one of those). So, I think we can safely say there was an explosion involved, but I wouldn't rule out any particular flavor of explosion just because a news article based off of what was probably a sparse official press release disagrees with another news article that may have drawn its conclusions (perhaps erroneously) from the exact same, very limited, official release. It's not like any of the reporters likely went out and interviewed people with the unit, certainly not immediately after the incident.

I understand the professional reasons why the military press is circumspect about details.

However, I can't imagine someone in the military wouldn't want to share the story with public.

Tactics, even enemy tactics, are tactics nonetheless. No sense giving anyone any ideas on particularly effective ways to kill US troops, eh? Leave ‘um guessing as much as possible.

Also, it's impossible for me to imagine that some news reporter with far greater resources than mine wouldn't have already come across this story. It would be a front page/lead story if it's true.

I think you give these reporters too much credit for diligence. A lack of investigative effort is a common theme in “stolen valor” cases and it’s not uncommon to find examples of even major newspapers just taking people at their word, even in the face of easily verifiable (or, more appropriately, falsifiable) claims like being awarded the Medal of Honor or Distinguished Service Cross (two of the very few awards with publicly available online databases; you literally only have to google a Medal of Honor or DSC recipients name to verify at least that part of their story).

Of course it’s not always a matter of not verifying a story, but also not digging for even basic facts beyond those spoon fed to you. It's quite common for the Military Times, for instance, to do an article on some recently court martialed or fired soldier/sailor/airman/marine/whatever and, after explaining their long service in Iraq or Afghanistan or their decades spent on ships state "Military records indicate Chief Smith had been awarded the National Defense Service Medal." EVERYONE GETS THE NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE MEDAL. And even a cursory glance at what they HAVE posted about a service members career (overseas tours, deployments, etc...) will tell anyone with half a clue or a modicum of investigative sense that they would also certainly have been awarded the various campaign and service awards associated with those particular deployments and quite likely also some awards for meritorious service. So, if the short answer from the military to the question “what awards does Chief Smith have” is “he’s been awarded the National Defense Service Medal” then the logical follow-up question, if you consider yourself a serious reporter for a military-themed newspaper, surely ought to be something like “and what else? I see, for instance, he was in Iraq, shouldn’t he have a campaign medal for that, and maybe a sea service deployment ribbon? Or an overseas service ribbon? And he’s a Chief, so probably a few awards of the Good Conduct Medal, right?” Of course the military may not get back to you in time for your story, but just saying this hypothetical Chief’s awards are limited to the one award that EVERYONE gets make you look amateurish. Yeah, no shit. And next you’ll tell me the sky is blue, unless it’s really cloudy out, I guess? Because to people who don’t know any better, they could not care less if this Chief got an NDSM, but to people who DO know better, you come off as foolish if that’s all you’ve found in your “exhaustive” investigative reporting.

And don't even get me started on how poorly we track awards in the military…

Anyways, where we we, oh yes:

Thank you for your expertise! This is an area where I have very little knowledge.

Well, don't thank me too much. It's definitely not my area of expertise. I'm in the Navy and Iraq is almost land-locked. Of course even with my limited knowledge, I’ve held back some suppositions about how the scenario could have played out (and even why these hypothetical insurgents might have wanted to use a decoy to draw someone away from their vehicle rather than plant the explosives in the road and detonate them under a vehicle) but, as is often the case, those aspects of the military you know the most about are often the ones you can talk about the least. Yep… Quite a few Naval Officers with my particular designator used to fill a certain position on land to help fill in for a lack of subject matter expertise within the Army…

[snopes]

Comment: I previously commented on your In God We Trust and Dollar Coin
article. I neglected to mention that putting it on the rim of the coin is
THE SAME as leaving it off since no one inspects the rim of a coin and
many can't read somethin that small.
Your article is disingenuous at best.

[rockland6674]

Originally Posted by snopes

Your article is disingenuous at best.

Whoa! Careful with the big words there, Sparky! You don't want to hurt yourself.

[snopes]

Referred by: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/snubbed.asp

Comment: On the obama handshake snub.
Did you even see the video? Does the look and actions of obama appear to
be those of someone simply introducing members of a delegation? Do you
realize your sources are all left leaning newspapers and writers?
If you actually plan to stick with this explanation then you are blatantly
being untruthful.

[snopes]

Comment: Jane Fonda is a traitor, she did betray american POW's. Your
decision to to say false is a lie. I'll never use your site again, you are
liberal liars.

[snopes]

Referred by: http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/starbucks.asp

Comment: I first herd about starbucks from an artical in usa today.
the solder asked starbucks to send or sell coffie to the military ,they
flat out refused.and said thay did not support the war,this was from a
newspaper not a rumer,email,or hearsay
when i read this i was furreous.I will never buy anything to do with
starbucks ever!If this artical was not printed,then
why did this site come up when i serched usa today?The only thing that
stinks worse than bs,is trying to cover it up!

[snopes]

Referred by: http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/scytl.asp

Comment: About Obama and SCYTL ..you have made it like its false ??I'm
guessing his thugs were in touch with Snopes .or who owns this site anyway
,,is it run by Illuminati ..in which case of course this would be denied
!!How do you know its FALSE i'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT EVIDENCE YOU HAVE TO
SUPPORT ITS FALSNESS

[snopes]

Referred by: http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/chickfila.asp

Comment: You did not give sufficient evidence that the sign saying
"McDonalds Supports Chick Fil A" was created online. You need better
proof before you say such a thing. I went to that website that you gave
and it was not at all proof that it was a hoax. You are biased and you
have once again shown it. Shame on you, such "open minded" people.

[snopes]

Referred by: http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/exemptions.asp

Comment: dhimmitude exists in the marxist health care bill foisted upon
the american people by the islamic president we have
you guys are unbelievable

[snopes]

Referred by: http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/military.asp

Comment: At the end of your "FALSE" report of the Obama committee in Ohio
trying to halt early military voting, you admit that it is in fact TRUE.
You just spun the story in the begining to say it wasn't. Forget all the
gobblie goop in the begining about everyone else. The suit is going
forward trying to stop the early military vote. Just answer. Is the group
and others suing? Is it about the early vote of the Military?
Time for you to stop being a mouth piece for the left. Stop putting
yourself out there as honest. Your not.

[snopes]

Referred by: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/veteranshealth.asp

Comment: I found your analysis of obama comments on having military
veterans use their private healthinsurance to cover the cost of ttheir
injuries which occurred while in the military.

He did exactly that! you found a quote created by some other jerk and
cited the incident as false even though he actually proposed to do just
that. Obama has no care, concern or love for anyone in the military except
when the serve his purpose of getting re-elected which you apparently
support.

[snopes]

Comment: I AM A RETIRED VIETNAM SEAL. YES THERE ARE A LOT OF PHONY PUKES
BUT YOU CAN CHECK ME OUT A VERISEAL OR ON INTERENET

JUST WHERE DID YOU GET YOUR INFO ON THAT TRAITOR PIECE OF SHIT jane fonda
AND WHAT SHE DID IN VN? I WENT TO A SPECIAL SCHOOL WHICH DOESN'T EVEN
HAVE A NAME WHEN I WAS ON ACTIVE DUTY AFTER VN. I SAW CLASSIFIED
REPORTS, QUITE SPECIFIC, WHICH CONTRACDICT YOUR INFO. SO WHAT IS YOUR
SOURCE?

fonda DID AND STILL DOES NEED A BULLET THROUGH HER HEAD AND THEN SET ON
FIRE.

[Tantei Kid]

Those classified files, the contents of which our specially trained military man knows need to be randomly talked about on the internet, also contain all the photos of Grade D meat boxes and the original tape of Johnny and Zsa Zsa with her cat.

[snopes]

Referred by: http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/debtfree.asp

Comment: Since you say this 1% transaction fee is the "hobby horse" of
only one congressman, explain to me why a financial institution would send
out a notice saying to expect the 1% fee. This notice was issued last tax
season and even gave the page number in the Obama Health Care Bill.

Is this report still FALSE even though the Health Care Bill has now passed
and the 1% fee was included?

[snopes]

Referred by: http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/debtfree.asp

Comment: Your report on HR4646 is not correct. You need to stop giving
the wrong information out the the public on this subject.

[snopes]

Referred by: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/photos/martyr.asp

Comment: SORRY BUT WE COMPLETELY DON'T AGREE THAT THIS WASN'T DONE BECAUSE
OF SEPT. 11 2001. WHY PUT IT IN THE WINDOW AT ALL ON THAT DAY IF IT
WASN'T MEANT TO DISTURB PEOPLE? THE "EXPERTS" YOU GOT THE FINDING FROM
ARE NOW SUSPECT TO ME. THEY HAVE GOTTEN "AWAY WITH IT" SO TO SPEAK.

[snopes]

Referred by: http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

Comment: I was alive when this happened and I saw her spit on our POWS.
She was called Hanoi Jane. That part was false that someone else spit. It
was her that spit. If you go back you will see what she said and did. She
does not deserve this honor. Please check back on old clippings of this
time.

[Auburn Red]

Originally Posted by snopes

Referred by: http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

Comment: I was alive when this happened and I saw her spit on our POWS

As opposed to being dead now? Oh Spirit from the Other World Knock once for yes and twice for no. Will you stop spreading UL's from Beyond???

Auburn "Your Psychic Friend" Red

[Don Enrico]

Originally Posted by snopes

If you go back you will see what she said and did.

Snopes, if you go back, could you drop me a line about buying Microsoft shares early on? I'll PM you me childhood adress.