Kid fined for competing with the Post Office

[Natalie]

Originally Posted by Hero_Mike

I think I was focusing on the "delivered within strict time limits or otherwise lose value" rather than the minimum charge. Lots of mail is far too "critical" to be lost in the regular mail system - we all know it happens far too often. But it is not necessarily "time critical" - just valuable or hard to replace. If I had a legal document that needed to be signed by both me and my long-lost cousin in Needles, California, he shouldn't send it back by regular mail, even if it isn't "time critical".

I think the law is applied to the services offered by a courier or express delivery service, not how the end user chooses to interpret "time critical". That is, FedEx isn't allowed to offer 4-5 day delivery, because that would imply that the mail they are delivering isn't express. You are allowed to send whatever you want through FedEx, but you have to pay a premium for fast delivery whether or not you need it.

I note that the USPS, at least, offers insurance, tracking, express delivery, and delivery confirmation. Granted, there are fees associated with these services, but the only difference is that one can decline the service if desired. I don't have the option of declining package tracking, for example, if I use FedEx.

Originally Posted by Hero_Mike

I'd like to see that cite, because I don't believe it.

Originally Posted by Natalie

You are allowed to send whatever you want through FedEx, but you have to pay a premium for fast delivery whether or not you need it.

Okay, so I know it's waaaay late, but I finally found the information I was looking for.

The year was 1991, and the company was Equifax. Officers from the US Postal Inspection Service visited Equifax headquarters in Atlanta to determine if the mail sent via Federal Express was indeed "extremely urgent." In the end it was decided that it was not, and the company was fined $30,000.

So even though the company was sending the mail overnight and paying a premium, they were still fined because the mail was determined by the inspectors to not be "extremely urgent."

The funny thing (to me anyway) is that when the USPIS started investigating, they found that the General Services Administration, a government agency, was one of the largest violators! The GSA had negotiated a rate for overnight mail with Federal Express that was much lower than what the USPS would charge.

Ref: New York Times, 1994

[AnglRdr]

Originally Posted by TimC

Okay, so I know it's waaaay late,

You, sir, win the internets today!

But welcome back.

[Lainie]

Originally Posted by TimC

The funny thing (to me anyway) is that when the USPIS started investigating, they found that the General Services Administration, a government agency, was one of the largest violators! The GSA had negotiated a rate for overnight mail with Federal Express that was much lower than what the USPS would charge.[/URL]

IOW, while violating the letter of the law, they were doing exactly what we supposedly want from our government: operating efficiently.

Back when I worked for consulting firms, we routinely sent reports to our clients via FedEx. It worked out fine until the time we did a project for UPS. Ooops.

[nonnieyrissa]

Originally Posted by AnglRdr

You, sir, win the internets today!

But welcome back.

I did a double take.

ETA - And yes, welcome back.

[Hero_Mike]

This is interesting. There is, however, a current advertising campaign for FedEx which highlights their "less urgent shipping options". The commercial is running on Canadian TV, but it does not seem to be specific about the country. Maybe it is only referring to "less urgent" trans-border shipping from Canada to the US?

[dfresh]

Originally Posted by Lainie

Back when I worked for consulting firms, we routinely sent reports to our clients via FedEx. It worked out fine until the time we did a project for UPS. Ooops.

My company did the exact same thing. Our firm was in Vermont/Massachusetts, so I am pretty sure that is not the same firm.

[Simply Madeline]

Re: client is UPS and important docs are FedExed to them.

I have heard this story at every consulting firm for which I've worked (3), and have heard it from every friend who works at a law firm. It always ends with an associate/consultant/executive assistant being fired.

[MapleLeaf]

Originally Posted by DemonWolf

You would not need a stamp if you wanted to hand deliver them unless you put the cards into the home's mailbox.

Basically, even though you bought, paid for, and installed the mailbox for your home, the post office is the only one allowed by law to put anything in it.

What would happen if you installed two mailboxes - one marked "mailbox" and one marked "flyers, coupons, etc."?

Originally Posted by Hero_Mike

It amazes me to hear about Saturday mail delivery (like in the US) or the days of twice-a-day mail in the UK - it's so foreign to my experience.

Does Canada Post not deliver on Saturdays? I'm not usually the one who checks the mail, but I thought there was only no mail on Sundays...

[Lainie]

Originally Posted by Simply Madeline

Re: client is UPS and important docs are FedExed to them.

I have heard this story at every consulting firm for which I've worked (3), and have heard it from every friend who works at a law firm. It always ends with an associate/consultant/executive assistant being fired.

Some of them may be ULs or FOAFs, but mine's not. No one got fired. It was embarrassing, but it wasn't worth firing anyone over. The people who ship the documents weren't the same ones who did the work and put the reports together. Everything else went by FedEx, and FedEx came by every day -- UPS didn't. The people who were familiar with the project didn't think to specify sending it by UPS, and the people who handled the shipping just assumed it should go the same way everything else did. They may not even have noticed the addressee's name.

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by MapleLeaf

Does Canada Post not deliver on Saturdays?

They don't, at least not here in the Province of Quebec maybe it's different in the others one.

[GenYus234]

Originally Posted by MapleLeaf

What would happen if you installed two mailboxes - one marked "mailbox" and one marked "flyers, coupons, etc."?

I'm not sure if you could legally do this if the flyer/coupon one was a marked mailbox (one that says "US Mail" on it), but many places have a post-mounted box for newspaper delivery. See this blog for an example. It is even mounted on the same post as the mailbox.

[Hero_Mike]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

They don't, at least not here in the Province of Quebec maybe it's different in the others one.

Aside from Expresspost "special" deliveries (i.e. the Harry Potter books), Canada Post only delivers on weekdays which are not stat holidays. I don't think we even have a history of Saturday delivery here in Canada.

[Graham2001]

Some related historical trivia here.

When Wells Fargo was getting established on the West Coast (1850's) they were running in quasi-competition with the USPS, they way they kept it legal was by purchasing stamped envelopes from the USPS and then adding their own stamp to the envelope for which they would charge whatever was needed to cover costs & make a profit. I'm not sure if the same thing would work today though.

[GenYus234]

It should work for using mailboxes. The link that Beachlife posted on the first page said

no part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage

. And the post office is getting paid for the parcel, without having to deliver it, so they shouldn't have a problem.

One issue might be if the package is under-stamped for what it would have cost. For example, Fed-Ex delivering a 2 ounce letter using a postcard stamp. Also, the Post Office might insist on the stamp being cancelled so it couldn't be reused.

[neoplop]

Originally Posted by Hero_Mike

FWIW, the mailbox is not such a sacred thing in Canada - and people can (and often do) deliver newspapers, flyers, coupons, and other items to mailboxes.

Actually, according to the Canada Post Corporation Act, section 56:

Every person who, in violation of the exclusive privilege of the Corporation under section 14, collects, transmits or delivers to the addressee thereof, or undertakes to collect, transmit or deliver to the addressee thereof, any letter within Canada, or receives or has in his possession within Canada any letter for the purpose of so transmitting or delivering it, commits an offence in respect of each such letter.

So placing an unstamped letter inside an apartment or house mailbox is an offence that can land you 5 years in jail. I'd say that's pretty sacred.

I have spoken to the folks at Canada Post (yes, they actually answer the phone) and they are vehement about enforcing that section of the Act, as it is also a privacy issue for them.