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  #21  
Old 07 May 2009, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Winston O'Boogie View Post
There isn't a programmer out there who doesn't use old code for new programs.
[hijack] OOOh, do tell! Do tell! Did she get permission, or are you going to sue the pants off of her> [/hijack]
Nah, I really think it was coincidence--but

Spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space spoiler space that's enough

In my novel The Bell, the Book, and the Spellbinder (1997), a character has managed to "stay alive" after his physical death by imprinting his personality and memory into a magical book; the volume has the power of enslaving people who read it, but the youthful hero destroys the book at the last second by dunking it in water and tearing the pages in pieces, and the bad guy dissolves into rivulets of ink. This results in the freeing of a close friend of the young hero from the baleful influence of the book.

In Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (1998), a character has managed to "stay alive" after his physical dissolution by imprinting his personality and memory into a magical book; the volume has the power of enslaving people who read it, but the youthful hero destroys the book at the last second by stabbing it with a basilisk fang, and the bad guy dissolves into rivulets of ink. This results in the freeing of a close friend of the young hero from the baleful influence of the book.

I don't think that's anything to sue about, but I did find it an interesting happenstance!
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  #22  
Old 07 May 2009, 07:28 PM
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I don't know, Brad, that sounds a bit too much of a coincidence!
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  #23  
Old 07 May 2009, 07:38 PM
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RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
 
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Hmmm. Writers plagiarize themselves. I've heard people say that Tennessee Williams actually wrote only one play. He certainly was fond or assigning the same quirks to more than one character. Roman Polanski makes a lot of films about people being random victims of crazy strangers (can't imagine where he got the idea). Shakespeare not only recycled ideas, he recycled lines. In As You Like It, Jacques says that "All the world's a stage," and in The Merchant of Venice, another character says "I hold the world...but a stage." I'm not even sure the idea was original with Shakespeare, anyway.

Were earlier drawing reused, or used as models? Maybe some intermediate-stage arm/leg inkings were reused to save time, but while the movement is the same, the drawings aren't identical. It's not like someone patched together clips from other films, and passed it off as completely new. Since live action films reuse props, sets, and costumes all the time, and unless the Disney advertisements specifically promised "All original art!" I don't see the problem.
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  #24  
Old 08 May 2009, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
...
Were earlier drawing reused, or used as models? Maybe some intermediate-stage arm/leg inkings were reused to save time, but while the movement is the same, the drawings aren't identical. It's not like someone patched together clips from other films, and passed it off as completely new. Since live action films reuse props, sets, and costumes all the time, and unless the Disney advertisements specifically promised "All original art!" I don't see the problem.
Good point. Sometimes earlier drawings were literally recycled; other times the action was traced onto other characters. Baloo's dance in The Jungle Book, for example, might wind up as part of Little John's dance in Robin Hood. The two characters are both bears with basically similar body builds, but Little John would be traced over the original Baloo drawings. In some cartoons, whole segments would be reused, sometimes in a clip-show format: In 1944's "What's Cookin', Doc?" Bugs Bunny attends the Academy Awards banquet, loses the Oscar to James Cagney (iirc), and then shows the audience clips from an earlier short, "Hiawatha's Rabbit Hunt." The Fleischer studios would frequently extract cyclic animation (Popeye's funny loping run, both arms behind him) and reuse the animation in different films.

In the film world, I see this rather like the reuse of previous film stock. Even Orson Welles did it; in Citizen Kane, when Kane takes a group of people on a picnic, the background in one scene consists of footage from Son of Kong (and you never knew that pterodactyls infested the Florida sky!). Not quite the same, but in Gone With the Wind if you look closely at the background in the "Burning of Atlanta" sequence, you will recognize the Great Wall from King Kong. It was a cheap way to dispose of an old set.

Oh--"All the world's a stage": That's a bit of Will Shakespeare cleverness. Shakespeare's stage was the Globe (the world, get it?). And so by what the playwrights of the time called "the old switcheroo," the whole world becomes a stage.

Last edited by Brad from Georgia; 08 May 2009 at 10:08 AM.
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  #25  
Old 18 November 2009, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad from Georgia View Post
Nah, I really think it was coincidence--but

In my novel The Bell, the Book, and the Spellbinder (1997), a character has managed to "stay alive" after his physical death by imprinting his personality and memory into a magical book; the volume has the power of enslaving people who read it, but the youthful hero destroys the book at the last second by dunking it in water and tearing the pages in pieces, and the bad guy dissolves into rivulets of ink. This results in the freeing of a close friend of the young hero from the baleful influence of the book.

In Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (1998), a character has managed to "stay alive" after his physical dissolution by imprinting his personality and memory into a magical book; the volume has the power of enslaving people who read it, but the youthful hero destroys the book at the last second by stabbing it with a basilisk fang, and the bad guy dissolves into rivulets of ink. This results in the freeing of a close friend of the young hero from the baleful influence of the book.

I don't think that's anything to sue about, but I did find it an interesting happenstance!
Well, as I understand it, when J K Rowling published the first HP book of seven ("Philosopher's stone") in 1997, she had already planned the whole series, and the important details were already thought out. (That diary becomes important again four books later, in "Half blood prince".) And is there even a chance, that she could have read your book? Are you published in Europe? So even though I have to agree, that the two plots sound very similar, it must be a weird coincidence.
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  #26  
Old 20 November 2009, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad from Georgia View Post
In 1944's "What's Cookin', Doc?" Bugs Bunny attends the Academy Awards banquet, loses the Oscar to James Cagney (iirc).

You are correct, sir!

In the immortal words of James Cagney, "I never said 'You dirty rat'; what I actually said was 'Judy, Judy, Judy'!" Gotta love a man who can blend to ULs together like that.
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  #27  
Old 20 November 2009, 04:09 PM
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"Live action" films and TV shows have also re-used footage. If it saves a few bucks, and doesn't distract from the story, it's much ado about nothing.
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  #28  
Old 14 June 2010, 04:06 PM
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One of my sister's favorite Disney films is Robin Hood and we are both very aware of the recycled animation. Whenever we watch it, we always point out the specific scenes.
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  #29  
Old 25 August 2010, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furienna View Post
So even though I have to agree, that the two plots sound very similar, it must be a weird coincidence.
Or both authors saw "Evil Dead" in the early '80s.
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  #30  
Old 25 August 2010, 08:07 AM
Jaime Vargas Jaime Vargas is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft View Post
It looks to me though that they were mostly copying from The Jungle Book (which, IIRC, was the last film to have Walt Disney's personal involvement?).
Although The Jungle Book, as shown in the video, reused an action sequence from The Adventures of Ichabod And Mr. Toad, and some Mowgli animations were taken from The Sword in the Stone.
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  #31  
Old 26 September 2010, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debunker View Post
"Live action" films and TV shows have also re-used footage. If it saves a few bucks, and doesn't distract from the story, it's much ado about nothing.
Yeah but the creators of those films and shows don't claim to have the best in quality. Disney is known for being the best in animation so the fact that they reuse and recycle is a bit discrediting.
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  #32  
Old 15 October 2010, 06:51 AM
Troberg Troberg is offline
 
 
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Well, most quality experts define quality as consistency at a desired level. What better way to achive that than to copy the good stuff?
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  #33  
Old 20 October 2010, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Critterbites View Post
Or both authors saw "Evil Dead" in the early '80s.
Not me; still haven't seen it, in fact.
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  #34  
Old 20 October 2010, 04:09 PM
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Michael Crichton reused a scene from Jurassic Park in State of Fear. He just traded out the dinosaurs for cannibals.

(Whited out for spoilerness, in case anyone might be upset.)
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  #35  
Old 20 October 2010, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LizzyBean View Post
I'll forgive you, but just this once.
Forgive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad from Georgia View Post
Again, it doesn't bother me that cartoonists occasionally reuse bits of animation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Winston O'Boogie View Post
There isn't a programmer out there who doesn't use old code for new programs.
Writers in various fields use boilerplate text.
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  #36  
Old 05 July 2012, 05:23 AM
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Yeah, I noticed that Anita from 101 Dalmatians has the same face as Aurora in Sleeping Beauty. Also in Jungle Book at the beginning you'll see the cubs run into the cave just like how the puppies in 101 Dalmatians head to bed. The exact same movements.
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