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  #1  
Old 21 June 2012, 10:30 PM
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Icon13 Salvation Army oppresses gay rights

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  #2  
Old 21 June 2012, 10:35 PM
Ryda Wong, EBfCo. Ryda Wong, EBfCo. is offline
 
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This is pretty much correct. I refuse to donate to SA because of their bigoted stance in regards to GLBTQ persons.
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  #3  
Old 21 June 2012, 11:33 PM
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Yeah, I thought their stance on the issue was widely known enough that it wouldn't need this sort of confirmation.
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Old 21 June 2012, 11:55 PM
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I don't donate to them, and tell others why whenever I get the chance. I'm not sure though that they spend donations on lobbying, and it's certainly up for debate whether or not they are a "charity." They may not meet my subjective definition of what I think charities ought to be about, but since there's a legal definition they have to meet I think it's probably at least a bit misleading to state flat out that they "are NOT a charity."

So although I heartily agree with the general sentiments, I'd put a couple of [citation needed] tags on the flyer.
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  #5  
Old 22 June 2012, 10:51 PM
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And, I'd add 'in USA'.
The mission statement (and practice) of the Salvation Army in New Zealand is provide assistance without discrimination
There are still religion based barriers to positions of leadership (which may be discriminatory, though they are currently based around 'married or celibate, no matter which genders) but in terms of Joe Average asking for assistance? you can sleep with whomever you wish, and it will make no difference whatsoever.
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  #6  
Old 22 June 2012, 11:28 PM
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Is that supposed to be "actively oppose gay rights", rather than "oppress"?
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  #7  
Old 23 June 2012, 05:10 AM
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Given the overall effect, oppress seems to be a fairly accurate term.
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  #8  
Old 23 June 2012, 05:13 AM
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How does one "oppress" a right?
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  #9  
Old 27 June 2012, 11:49 PM
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Tsk, Tsk

The Salvation Army OPPOSES "LGBT" legislation because such laws conflict with a person's conscience since "gay" not only refers to someone who experiences same-sex physical attraction but also engages in sexual acts with someone of the same sex. The Salvation Army views such behavior as immoral and contrary to what God intends. They are not bigots for this reason. Certainly not like racists! It's a matter of sexual morality. So please don't call them bigoted!

Barb Rainey
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  #10  
Old 27 June 2012, 11:54 PM
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[hijack]Bar Brainey is a sillier parsing of your user name.
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  #11  
Old 27 June 2012, 11:56 PM
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Roll eyes

Right. Just like those racists who say "I don't dislike people for being black, just acting black."
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  #12  
Old 27 June 2012, 11:59 PM
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I'm sure the Salvation Army would be the first to defend any anti-Christian messages as not being bigoted because the person is only opposing those people that choose to act on their Christian feelings.
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Old 28 June 2012, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbrainey View Post
So please don't call them bigoted!
The root of their bigotry is irrelevant. They believe that a segment of the population is lesser than they are, is deserving of fewer rights, of fewer legal protections, and in fact a spokesperson says that "gays should be put to death."

That is bigotry. They are bigots. Period.
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  #14  
Old 28 June 2012, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbrainey View Post
The Salvation Army OPPOSES "LGBT" legislation because such laws conflict with a person's conscience since "gay" not only refers to someone who experiences same-sex physical attraction but also engages in sexual acts with someone of the same sex. The Salvation Army views such behavior as immoral and contrary to what God intends.
How does LGBT legislation conflict with anyone's conscience? Really, I keep asking this of homophobes, and no one has been able to give me a sensible answer. I get that many religious people think homosexuality/homosexual sex is a sin. I think that's completely irrational, given that they have no problem disregarding various other parts of scripture that condemn things they actually want to do, or that advocate things that are abhorrent to our contemporary social mores, but whatever. So gay sex/marriage is a sin. Why the holy cheese do you care if sinning is legal? If there really is an afterlife and a God who sincerely cares about who shares your bed, surely he is capable of taking care of business himself? The laws of the land are for keeping people from hurting each other here on earth. Everything else is between you and the man upstairs.
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Old 28 June 2012, 04:28 AM
Assilem Brandywine Assilem Brandywine is offline
 
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Yet another reason to give them the finger when they ask for a dollar.

When I was in trouble and needed help, they seemed more interested in finding out which church I belonged to. I didn't belong to any church. So, when I got back on my feet and had a dollar to give away around Christmas, it didn't go into the SA kettle. I gave it to a homeless diabetic instead. (I found out he was diabetic when I offered him the bottle of Coke I had with me and he said "No thanks, I'm diabetic.")
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  #16  
Old 28 June 2012, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbrainey View Post
The Salvation Army OPPOSES "LGBT" legislation because such laws conflict with a person's conscience since "gay" not only refers to someone who experiences same-sex physical attraction but also engages in sexual acts with someone of the same sex. The Salvation Army views such behavior as immoral and contrary to what God intends. They are not bigots for this reason. Certainly not like racists! It's a matter of sexual morality. So please don't call them bigoted!

Barb Rainey
According to Merriam-Webster: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

Definition of BIGOT

: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Yes, it is bigotry.

What difference does it make to you? You are following the life that you believe will result in a favorable place for you with your God. What can these people possibly be doing to affect your ending? I honestly want to know what difference it makes to you. If they are living in what you perceive to be sin, quite frankly it's none of your damn business. It's between them and "God".
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  #17  
Old 28 June 2012, 01:57 PM
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Major Andrew Craib, spokesman for the Salvation Army, recently stated that the Salvation Army's position on homosexuality is that all gays should die. After the expected backlash, the Salvos issued a statement of retraction. Sort of.

[cite]
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  #18  
Old 10 July 2012, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprise Me View Post
How does LGBT legislation conflict with anyone's conscience? Really, I keep asking this of homophobes, and no one has been able to give me a sensible answer. I get that many religious people think homosexuality/homosexual sex is a sin. I think that's completely irrational, given that they have no problem disregarding various other parts of scripture that condemn things they actually want to do, or that advocate things that are abhorrent to our contemporary social mores, but whatever. So gay sex/marriage is a sin. Why the holy cheese do you care if sinning is legal? If there really is an afterlife and a God who sincerely cares about who shares your bed, surely he is capable of taking care of business himself? The laws of the land are for keeping people from hurting each other here on earth. Everything else is between you and the man upstairs.
Stock Answer 1: Cause they want to save their souls and if they accept it they are doing homosexuals a disservice.

Stock Answer 2: If their nation makes it legal it's like them saying it's 'ok' (in fairness I've heard anti-Death Penalty people use this argument as well)

Stock Answer 3: It's important to try to reduce the amount of 'sin' out there.

Real Answer 1: Cause we hate gay people but just out and out 'hating' people is hard to sell and doesn't come with the special protection that 'It's my religion!" does.

Real Answer 2: It's icky

Real Answer 3: Inward homosexual feelings need to be repressed so they are even more hostile outward to make sure to send the message that 'they ain't gay'.
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  #19  
Old 10 July 2012, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marrya View Post
And, I'd add 'in USA'.
The mission statement (and practice) of the Salvation Army in New Zealand is provide assistance without discrimination
There are still religion based barriers to positions of leadership (which may be discriminatory, though they are currently based around 'married or celibate, no matter which genders) but in terms of Joe Average asking for assistance? you can sleep with whomever you wish, and it will make no difference whatsoever.
It has changed its position, then, from 1986, when the Salvation Army in NZ actively campaigned against Homosexual Law Reform Act (which legalised male gay sex)?
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  #20  
Old 10 July 2012, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbrainey View Post
The Salvation Army OPPOSES "LGBT" legislation because such laws conflict with a person's conscience since "gay" not only refers to someone who experiences same-sex physical attraction but also engages in sexual acts with someone of the same sex.
I call them bigots when they engage in bigoted acts.
Wheedling 'please don't call them what they actually are!' is quite rich. Why should they be afforded an ounce of consideration from those of us they don't count as full human beings?
They can damn well own it, along with all the opprobium that'll earn them from us conscience-confusing LGBT types and our allies. They can take it. God's on their side, after all.
But this looks like one of those occasions when it's worse to call someone a bigot than it is to actually act like one.

Btw, why the scare quotes around LGBT?
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