Oprah says "tip 10 percent"

[RCIAG]

Originally Posted by Singing in the Drizzle

I ran across this today and thought it might be helpful.

United States Department of Labor, Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees

That was actually pretty helpful.

$7.25, what servers get paid here MD, is hardly a living wage in Montgomery County, MD & not much above minimum wage. Double that & you might make it if you're single.

[Gayle]

“Was the service ok? Because you didn’t leave as big a tip as I expected. Look: here’s the tipping guide to tell you how much you should have tipped.”

“You know what? I can make this math simple for you. Let’s adjust it down to zero percent. I can do that math easy.”

I’ve been a waiter and a bartender in the past, and I’d flip out completely if anyone ever did that to me.

[snopes]

“Was the service ok? Because you didn’t leave as big a tip as I expected. Look: here’s the tipping guide to tell you how much you should have tipped.”

"The problem with your tip wasn't due to bad math; it was due to poor service."

[candirockstar135]

Originally Posted by RCIAG

That was actually pretty helpful.

$7.25, what servers get paid here MD, is hardly a living wage in Montgomery County, MD & not much above minimum wage. Double that & you might make it if you're single.

I get paid $4.65/hr at my corporate job, and at my latter job (the non-corporate one that has suggested gratuity on the check) I get paid *drumroll please*...nada. We don't have shift pay at all, we rely on customer tips. I actually make more at the latter job than the former, though, so it highlights how that $4.65 an hour really is like nothing.

[Esprise Me]

Originally Posted by Ana Ng

I hated waitressing, and generally made less than minimum wage, although that was in Ireland. But how do you end up in the red for waiting on a table? Not disbelieving, genuinely curious.

I explained in post 100 how tip-sharing practices can result in a server losing money on a table.

Originally Posted by snopes

"The problem with your tip wasn't due to bad math; it was due to poor service."

I don't approve in the slightest of the practice Candirockstar described. However, she did indicate that the part of the confrontation with which most people seem to take issue (pointing to the tip guide, not asking if the service was to their liking) followed an indication by the guest that the service was, in fact, to his liking.

Originally Posted by candirockstar135

If a patron tips a server very poorly (and we have a tip guide on the check that lets the customer know what 15% of the bill is, 18%, and 20%), we approach and ask if the service was to the customer's liking. Usually the cheap customer says 'yes' and seems baffled. Then we point to the tip guide on the check.

After eight years in this wretched business, I've come to agree with those who feel servers should simply be paid at least minimum wage (better yet, a living wage, but evening up those two is a job for the gummint) and that tips should be discretionary extras that the server cannot be required to share (of course, this would require that all the employees be paid a decent wage. Horrors!) But I do hope that those who have expressed such feelings aren't taking it out on American servers. I've known a few slacktivists who can insist, with straight faces, that stiffing the server when they go out to eat will change things for the better in the long run, and I'll refrain from enumerating the many flaws in this plan so long as no one in this thread speaks up in defense of it.

[AnglRdr]

Originally Posted by Esprise Me

I don't approve in the slightest of the practice Candirockstar described. However, she did indicate that the part of the confrontation with which most people seem to take issue (pointing to the tip guide, not asking if the service was to their liking) followed an indication by the guest that the service was, in fact, to his liking.

It's a guide; it's not the law.

[Esprise Me]

Originally Posted by AnglRdr

It's a guide; it's not the law.

I thought I stated my point clearly enough; I guess I didn't. So, once more:
-I think the behavior Candirockstar described is unacceptable, and am not defending it.
-However, snopes responded to a quote of a quote of her post with a remark to the effect of "poor tips for poor service," which I assumed was directed at her.
-I therefore pointed out that in the particular situation described, the customer had indicated that the service was good. Therefore, he left a poor tip for a reason other than poor service.

No, tipping is not the law, but as has been explained, it's how most servers in the U.S. make ends meet, as the wages alone are nowhere near sufficient. Tipping poorly or not at all when you are perfectly satisfied with the service is, in this country, not cool. It's a matter entirely apart from tipping poorly or not at all when the service was poor.

[Floater]

Originally Posted by Esprise Me

No, tipping is not the law, but as has been explained, it's how most servers in the U.S. make ends meet, as the wages alone are nowhere near sufficient. Tipping poorly or not at all when you are perfectly satisfied with the service is, in this country, not cool. It's a matter entirely apart from tipping poorly or not at all when the service was poor.

If you're not satisfied with your wages, then get a new job. It's as simple as that. The US tipping system, based on alms as it is, could best be described as humiliating and degrading and if enough people opt out from working as wait staff the employers might learn something.

A friend of mine has told how his brother and SIL didn't tip at a very posh restaurant in New York and when the waiter complained they explained that "if the service hadn't been so lousy and if the food hadn't tasted like shite you might have got a tip".

[ParaDiddle]

Originally Posted by Floater

If you're not satisfied with your wages, then get a new job. It's as simple as that. . .

It's as simple as that.

- P

[AnglRdr]

Originally Posted by Esprise Me

I thought I stated my point clearly enough; I guess I didn't. So, once more:
-I think the behavior Candirockstar described is unacceptable, and am not defending it.
-However, snopes responded to a quote of a quote of her post with a remark to the effect of "poor tips for poor service," which I assumed was directed at her.
-I therefore pointed out that in the particular situation described, the customer had indicated that the service was good. Therefore, he left a poor tip for a reason other than poor service.

I got your point. I was pointing out for those of us who seem to think the guide is the law that it is not.

No, tipping is not the law, but as has been explained, it's how most servers in the U.S. make ends meet, as the wages alone are nowhere near sufficient. Tipping poorly or not at all when you are perfectly satisfied with the service is, in this country, not cool. It's a matter entirely apart from tipping poorly or not at all when the service was poor.

I've waited table and did cocktail waiting, as I noted before. I even understand the history of how tipping as a substitute for restaurants and bars being excluded from federal minimum wage laws.

However, even if the service was excellent, patrons are under zero obligation to tip well, if at all, and what "well" is is relative.

[ganzfeld]

Originally Posted by ParaDiddle

It's as simple as that.

This reminded me of a show I was listening to today that talked about the Illusion of Control and the Just-World phenomenon, etc. They talked about how when we see someone else in a bad situation, we tend to blame that person, with the additional thought that, for example upon seeing an unemployed person, "If I were in that situation I'd just do any job..." The point is that everyone thinks that, even the people who do get themselves in those situations. The evidence is that people can't really "just get another job" or "just find a home" or "just get some food". Sorry, that's a bit off topic but I was reminded.

[dfresh]

Originally Posted by candirockstar135

at my latter job (the non-corporate one that has suggested gratuity on the check) I get paid *drumroll please*...nada.

You should report them to the government. According to the guide linked to by Singing in the Drizzle, you should get at least $4.35 per hour.

[fitz1980]

Originally Posted by Singing in the Drizzle

They complain on the local net sites about how they are not payed enough and the only way they make money is with tips and need that 20%. They are being payed $8.55 per hours in this state

What state does this @$$ hole live in because where I work it's like $3 per hour since tips are supposed to make up the rest?

[lord_feldon]

Originally Posted by fitz1980

What state does this @$$ hole live in because where I work it's like $3 per hour since tips are supposed to make up the rest?

If tips don't make up the rest, your employer is obligated to fill in the gap, though. That might be what Singing in the Drizzle was referring to.

[fitz1980]

Originally Posted by Ana Ng

I hated waitressing, and generally made less than minimum wage, although that was in Ireland. But how do you end up in the red for waiting on a table? Not disbelieving, genuinely curious.

It's possible where I live but requires that either the server majorly dropped the ball or was waiting on the scum of the Earth; which happens all to often in Atlanta as there are so many ghettos and redneck enclaves around.

Basically my restaurant requires that the servers remit 1% of their sales to the buser and 1% to the bartender. If you have a table of scum who runs a $100 tab and gives you exactly $100 after the meal than you got nothing from them but are required to give $2 to the buser and bartender.

[Errata]

Originally Posted by Floater

A friend of mine has told how his brother and SIL didn't tip at a very posh restaurant in New York and when the waiter complained they explained that "if the service hadn't been so lousy and if the food hadn't tasted like shite you might have got a tip".

Your friends brother sounds like an ass. Foreigners behaving rudely according to local standards are not going to "improve" the local culture to be more like their own "superior" culture. They're just going to be written off as jerks, and rightly so.

[AnglRdr]

A waiter who complains to a customer about how the customer didn't tip them is a jerk, too, though.

[Errata]

Originally Posted by AnglRdr

A waiter who complains to a customer about how the customer didn't tip them is a jerk, too, though.

Agreed, they were both wrong. But I've heard enough stories from Europeans that go exactly like this, and often it has a tone that it retroactively justified not tipping, because the waiter turned out to be a jerk anyway.

"I spat in a guy's face, and then he punched me. But it's not my fault, he had it coming because he was violent."

[Jay Tea]

Originally Posted by Errata

Your friends brother sounds like an ass. Foreigners behaving rudely according to local standards are not going to "improve" the local culture to be more like their own "superior" culture. They're just going to be written off as jerks, and rightly so.

Why is he an ass for enduring a horrible dining experience? and who mentioned 'superior cultures'? Nobody - Chip on shoulder?

What's the 'local' procedure for a bad dining experience? take it bending over and not only pay but tip as well?

[Errata]

Originally Posted by Jay Tea

Why is he an ass for enduring a horrible dining experience? and who mentioned 'superior cultures'? Nobody - Chip on shoulder?

What's the 'local' procedure for a bad dining experience? take it bending over and not only pay but tip as well?

I don't find their cheap friend of a friend credible enough to just accept at face value that they endured a grueling nightmare experience. At a "posh" restaurant in New York, they most likely had an above average experience, but also most likely had a very expensive bill. A more likely alternative is that it didn't meet their unrealistic expectations and because they're cheap they took any opportunity not to pay a tip.

It's always Europeans who are critical of the tipping culture to begin with who have these anecdotes. Americans usually manage to go lifetimes without these situations, but all it takes for most of these people is a week or two for it to happen.