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  #61  
Old 22 July 2009, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes View Post
Comment: Another interesting aspect of the Health Plan?

"On Page 425 of Obama's health care bill, the Federal Government will
require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a counseling session
every 5 years with the objective being that they will explain to them just
how to end their own life earlier. Yes...They are going to push SUICIDE to
cut medicare spending!"
Do people really believe this crap? On second though, don't answer that I just thought of the birthers and the answer is pretty self evident.

P&LL, Syl
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  #62  
Old 23 July 2009, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes View Post
"On Page 425 of Obama's health care bill, the Federal Government will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a counseling session every 5 years with the objective being that they will explain to them just how to end their own life earlier. Yes...They are going to push SUICIDE to cut medicare spending!"
That's nothing! I heard that on page 723 there's a really good recipe for roast baby...and on page 1533 there's a law that will make "droit du seigneur -- ius primę noctis" legal - except Obama himself will be granted the power.

Seriously who is spreading these rumors?

I am also unsure as to how one might find page numbers --- Here is H.R. 3200 the "America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009" I suspect this is the "Obama healthcare plan" but I've not fully investigated the Whitehouse site for documents and this seems the most concrete that I can find.

Like most bills it is not broken up into pages so much as sections. Section 425 doesn't exist -- perhaps that's how it hides this nefarious suicide counseling. The sections I mention don't exist either, and that's how I know they to are true...

-Winged Monkey
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  #63  
Old 23 July 2009, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvanz View Post
Do people really believe this crap?
Yes, yes they do. I was just coming to post a thread on this when I saw that it had already been covered here. This was on my Facebook feed today:
Quote:
Does anyone agree with "End Of Life", (E.O.L) counselors buried on page 425 of the health care bill that is in the US house of representatives?? This is crazy people! This legislation is saying that if the government feels that certain elderly people do not meet health requirements that they deem to be reasonable then they can be denied for procedures and just be allowed to receive palliative care and get E.O.L...
The article the poster references can be found here:Obamacare for old folks: Just 'cut your life short' HATEFUL PARANOID STUPIDITY ALERT: It's from WorldNet Daily.

My favorite bit is this:
Quote:
It also recommends a method for death: "the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration."
No, NFBSKwits, that's a method of prolonging life.
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  #64  
Old 23 July 2009, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Winged Monkey View Post
. . .and on page 1533 there's a law that will make "droit du seigneur -- ius primę noctis" legal - except Obama himself will be granted the power.
That might actually motivate me to get married again.
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  #65  
Old 23 July 2009, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Lainie View Post
That might actually motivate me to get married again.
I just woke Lizzy up with my laughing.

That's okay, it's time to take her to PT anyway...
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  #66  
Old 23 July 2009, 12:08 PM
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"Gee honey, I feel bad about it, too, but what can we do? It's the law. . . "
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  #67  
Old 23 July 2009, 02:35 PM
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Just another Liberul plot to increase divorce and re-marriage, then.
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  #68  
Old 23 July 2009, 02:50 PM
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Here's an explanation of what the "euthanasia" section is really about:

http://firebrandblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/cry-wolf.html
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  #69  
Old 23 July 2009, 02:53 PM
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Is there any way to prevent the NY Post from reporting anything but Page 6- related stuff, and keep them away from political stuff?

Because that would be great.
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  #70  
Old 23 July 2009, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes View Post
Here's an explanation of what the "euthanasia" section is really about:
Ah Ha! Finally a citation I can use!

The offensive section of the new health bill is SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.

It adds another definition to the definitions of 'Medical and Other Health Services' in SEC. 1861 of the SOCIAL SECURITY ACT

What does it do? Nor quite sure - it seems to include counseling services as medicare covered 'Medical and Other Health Services'. Specifically counseling by physicians and physicians aides on hospice care, state provided options for advanced long-term care and, yes, decisions about the point at which life prolonging treatment should stop. I'm guessing this definition is here in part as a way to allow doctors to talk to patients about living wills and medical power of attorney.

The Doctor will say (assuming one is about to go into long term hospice care or otherwise afflicted with a terminal condition) "So you are going to die, you should let your doctors and family know how long and how far they should go to keep you alive." It leaves this decision squarely in the patient's hands.

I'm not sure what else one could do -- we have technology to prolong life to enormous lengths, but I know a lot of people (myself included) who wouldn't really want to be lying insensible while machines keep my parts going. How do we make the decision when to stop prolonging life, and should physician counseling be part of it?

-Winged Monkey
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  #71  
Old 23 July 2009, 09:22 PM
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I think doctors should be a part of that decision making. They would be the ones to best know what the outcome and possible additional conditions/complications that a patient my develop as said patient's health declines due to whatever terminal illness they have. Otherwise, without a health care directive, or a decision made by the patient's next of kin, aren't doctors ethiclly responsible to keep a person alive. I don't know if ethical is the right term, but then, withholding care could place the doctor in a position to be sued for malpractice.

Last edited by snopes; 23 July 2009 at 10:32 PM. Reason: Removed pointless reproduction of entire previous post
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  #72  
Old 24 July 2009, 02:39 AM
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I'm watching Rush Limbaugh on Fox News speaking about Health Care Reform right now. Is this guy for real? Do people in America actually take him seriously?

He seems to thinks it's fantastic that if you have an accident and go to the ER and get treated but have no insurance, you get sent a bill that you can't pay. But it's fine! Because they'll just send out the repossessors to take your car, and that's your health care debt all squared up. He sees no problem with this scenario. He also seems to lack basic understanding of how universal health care actually works in countries that have it. He thinks politicians will decide who gets your health care but I can say as an Australian that it's always doctors who get to decide what health care you receive, whether you're in a public hospital or lucky enough to be able to afford a private hospital, you get the medical care you need either way.
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  #73  
Old 24 July 2009, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren View Post
I'm watching Rush Limbaugh on Fox News speaking about Health Care Reform right now. Is this guy for real? Do people in America actually take him seriously?

He seems to thinks it's fantastic that if you have an accident and go to the ER and get treated but have no insurance, you get sent a bill that you can't pay. But it's fine! Because they'll just send out the repossessors to take your car, and that's your health care debt all squared up. He sees no problem with this scenario. He also seems to lack basic understanding of how universal health care actually works in countries that have it. He thinks politicians will decide who gets your health care but I can say as an Australian that it's always doctors who get to decide what health care you receive, whether you're in a public hospital or lucky enough to be able to afford a private hospital, you get the medical care you need either way.
Yes, many people take him seriously. He is the epitome of the far-right pretend conservative. And no, like many of his ilk, he doesn't appear to have a working knowledge of the things he's against.

-RB
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  #74  
Old 27 July 2009, 04:06 PM
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Comment: Are Democrats on the Frankin Commission censoring Republican
Mail. They are not allowed to use Government Controlled Health Care in
messages to to their constitutents.
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  #75  
Old 27 July 2009, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rswarrior View Post
I recall a program (I believe it was Glenn Beck) where he said a 22 year old patient was denied a liver transplant in Britain, because the patient was an alcoholic, but that was Britain, not Canada. From a couple of minutes on Google, it appears to be true. Evidently the fact that he had not been alcohol free for the previous 180 days was a factor in denying the transplant.
He would have been denied in the US, as well, regardless of his insurance status, for exactly the same reason.
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  #76  
Old 27 July 2009, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rswarrior View Post
I recall a program (I believe it was Glenn Beck) where he said a 22 year old patient was denied a liver transplant in Britain, because the patient was an alcoholic, but that was Britain, not Canada. From a couple of minutes on Google, it appears to be true. Evidently the fact that he had not been alcohol free for the previous 180 days was a factor in denying the transplant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnglRdr View Post
He would have been denied in the US, as well, regardless of his insurance status, for exactly the same reason.
And if anyone thinks he shouldn't have been denied, I'd love to know why. I'm sure he knew the rules, and I don't see why he should get a transplant ahead of someone else who followed them.
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  #77  
Old 27 July 2009, 06:20 PM
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Teacher

Comment: This is more a question than a rumor & I'm not sure where to go
for the answer.

I hear repeated often that 47 million Americans do not have health
insurance - implication is they recieve little or no care.

A letter to the editor of the Economist (7/18/09) says (I exerpt):
Around 20MM of these are college students or rich persons who choose not
to pay for it.
11MM are eligible for Medicade but have not signed up.
10MM are are not American citizens
That leaves 6-10 MM truly needy.

Do you know, or can you tell me where to find, the real truth reguarding
the existing healthcare coverage for Americans?
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  #78  
Old 27 July 2009, 06:21 PM
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Comment: The healthcare reform legislation currently before Congress contains an
abortion mandate that is a grave threat to human life. The bill's language
will result in federally mandated abortion coverage by nearly all health
plans, recruitment of abortion doctors into local health networks, and the
nullification of many state laws that place reasonable limits on abortion.

The National Right to Life Committee (NRLC) has called this legislation
the "largest expansion of abortion since Roe v. Wade."

We urge you to write to your senators and congressman today.

Time is of the essence as congressional leaders want to pass the bill in
the Senate and House by the end of July.
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  #79  
Old 27 July 2009, 06:23 PM
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Comment: you better spread this like wildfire. If you disagree with any of
these line items, I suggest you copy, paste, and send to your
congressman, senators, and governors and say no...no...no!
Unbelievable. What the few democrats are proposing is beyond belief
and completely unconstitutional.


Pg 22 of the HealthCare Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL
EMPLOYERS that self- insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOV'T COMMITTEE that
decides what treatments/benefits you can get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!


Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC
Benefits for you. You will have no choice!

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non -US
citizens, illegal or otherwise

Pg 58HC Bill - Gov't will have real-time access to individual finances
and a National ID Healthcard will b issued!

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Gov't will have direct access to your bank
accounts for electtronic funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their
families in Unions & community organizations (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Gov't is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC
plans under Gov't control.

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Gov't mandates ALL benefit packages for
private HC plans in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specific for Benefit Levels for Plans = The
Gov't will ration your Healthcare!

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Gov't mandates linguistic appropriate
services. Example - Translation illegal aliens

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Gov't will use groups i.e., ACORN &
Americorps to sign up indivuals for Gov't HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Benefit Levels for Plans. #AARP
members - Your Health care WILL be rationed

-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Indivuals will be
automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice

pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOV'T on price- fixing. No
"judicial review" against Gov't Monopoly.

pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors- The Gov't will tell YOU what you can
earn.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto- enroll employees into public
option plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for healthcare for part- time
employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Emplyer with payroll of $400,000 and above who
does not provide public option. pays 8% tax on all payroll. (Public
Option is the Government Plan)

pg 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between
$ 251,000 and $ 400,000 who doesnt provide public option pays 2-6%
tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC
according to Gov't will be taxed 2.5% of income

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NON-RESIDENT Alien is exempt from
indivual taxes. (Americans will pay)

Pg 195 HC Bill -Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have
access to ALL American's financial and personal records

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not
be treated as tax" (Yes, it says that)

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Gov't will reduce physician services for
Medicaid. Seniors, low- income, and the poor affected

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors: It doesn't matter what specialty
you have, you'll all be paid the same

PG 253 Line 10-18 Gov't sets value of Doctor's time, etc. Literally
value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131 Gov't mandates and controls productivity for private
HC industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Federal Gov't regulates rental and purchase of power
-driven wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer
patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Gov't will penalize hospitals for what Gov't
deems unnecessary and preventable readmissions.

Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission
that results in a re-admission and the Gov't will penalize you.

Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Gov't tells
Doctors. what and how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Gov't is
mandating that hospitals cannot expand

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT
community input is required. Can you say ACORN?!!

Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Gov't mandates establishment of outcome-
based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Gov't has authority to disqualify Medicare Plans,
HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Gov't plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Gov't will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs
people! (What is supposed to happen to them??)

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Gov't creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory
Committee.

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Gov't mandates Advance Care Planning Consultation.
Think Senior Citizens end -of- life

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Gov't will instruct and consult regarding living
wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Gov't provides approved list of end
of life resources, guiding you in death

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Gov't mandates program for orders for end of life.
The Gov't has a say in how your life ends

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "advanced care planning consultation" will be used
frequently as patients health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER
for end of life plans. AN ORDER from Government !!'

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an
end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Gov't will decide what level of treatment you
will have at end of life

Pg 469 - Community- Based Home Medical Services. Non -profit
organizations Hello, ACORN Medical Services here.

Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED
Organizations....Monthly payment to a community-based organization.
Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Gov't will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which
means they will insert Gov't into your marriage

Pg 494-498 Gov't will cover Mental Health Services including defining,
creating, rationing those
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  #80  
Old 27 July 2009, 06:49 PM
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So what I get from this is:

a) The author can't read, or at least can't be arsed to do the most basic research on terms he/she doesn't understand.

b) The author is really afraid of "rationing" of health care, whatever that means.

c) The author REALLY doesn't like ACORN, despite obviously having no idea what ACORN is (other than having something to do with "community") or does.
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