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Old 10 March 2015, 07:24 AM
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BrianB BrianB is offline
 
Join Date: 03 March 2000
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 3,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefighter_raven View Post
Giovanni Colombo de Moconesi (Genoa) is the name I've seen most often cited as Christopher Columbus(Colombo) grandfather.
From this Wikipedia article it appears his maternal grandfather was Giacomo from Fontanarossa of the Bisagno. So, neither grandfather was named Stephen (Stefano).
Quote:
I also noticed there is a serious timeline error in the first place. Ramon Lull wasn't even born until 1235 (13th century) and died in 1315.
Yea, this glurge author has a serious math problem. Click here for the Wikipedia article about Ramon Llull.

Anyway, I found this exact glurge here, from an LDS (Mormon) website.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes View Post
Thinking that the sight of his homeland might encourage him, for Ramon was miraculously still alive, they carried him on deck and raised him so that he could see over the rail. After viewing his native terrain, he lifted his arm, pointing it westward, and with the last breath of his mouth said, "Beyond the seas that wash this land is another land whose natives know not God. Send men there." Then he died.
From the Wikipedia article (emphasis mine):
Quote:
At the age of 82, in 1314, Ramon Llull traveled again to North Africa and an angry crowd of Muslims stoned him in the city of Bougie. Genoese merchants took him back to Mallorca, where he died at home in Palma the next year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes View Post
"Beyond the seas that wash this land is another land whose natives know not God. Send men there."
This quote has hits on only two sites: this one and the Mormon site I linked above. Even if that quote is authentic nothing indicates he was talking about the Western Hemisphere. In fact, this article about Henry the Navigator (PDF) says the following on page 19:
Quote:
Ramon lull (1232-1315), the Catalan Franciscan scholar who battled against the Aristotelian/Averroist currents of that time, introduced a broader strategic conception into the Council of Vienne, in 1311. It was to move against Venetian-Turkish control by a pincers action: First, to shatter the Western reach of Moslem power by taking Ceuta, the southern of the famed Pillars of Hercules at the outlet of the Mediterranean Sea to the Atlantic Ocean (the northern one being Gibraltar). Second, to circumnavigate Africa, to strike a blow directly into the hinterland of Moslem power-the "Arabic lake" that later was called the Indian Ocean.
So, I think it would be much more likely he was talking about the Muslim world, India, or both. In addition, the book A Wind from the North: The Life of Henry the Navigator by Ernie Bradford says the following:
Quote:
Curiously enough, the Mallorcan mystic Ramon Lull in the thirteenth century had prophesied that the Portuguese would one day capture Ceuta and circumnavigate Africa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes View Post
He conceived this thought during the time his culture taught that the earth was flat.
Le sigh. When will this stupid myth die? It seems this glurge author got all of his "facts" from Washington Irving's A History of the Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus. The combination of the flat earth myth and the notion of Columbus driven by his faith is right out of popular 19th American literature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes View Post
For the execution of the journey to the Indies, I did not make use of intelligence, mathematics or maps. It is simply the fulfillment of what Isaiah had prophesied.
I found this quote in many religious books (this one, for example) but no secular ones.* In fact, every reference to that quote I've found so far points to a book called The Light and the Glory for Young Readers: 1492-1787 by Peter Marshall and David Manuel. (Click here for the publisher's description, which also lists Anna Wilson Fishel as an author.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by snopes View Post
"No one should fear to undertake any task in the name of our Saviour, if it is just and if the intention is purely for His holy service. The working out of all things has been assigned to each person by our Lord, but it all happens according to His sovereign will, even though He gives advice. He lacks nothing that it is in the power of men to give Him. Oh, what a gracious Lord, who desires that people should perform for Him those things for which He holds Himself responsible!"
Again, I found the whole quote in many religious books but not secular ones. However, I have found parts of this quote (for example, the first sentence) in secular sources so I find it more plausible. This quote is allegedly from Book of Prophecies by Columbus. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find an English translation online where I could verify these quotes.

Brian

*Please note I'm not saying that this makes the quote false. It just raises a red flag with me when you see a claim quoted so narrowly. For example, when Lincoln said
Quote:
The Almighty has His own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh."
you find it in both religious and secular sources.

Last edited by BrianB; 10 March 2015 at 07:28 AM. Reason: Forgot the last quote!
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