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Old 10 January 2013, 03:42 PM
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Mickey Blue Mickey Blue is offline
Join Date: 01 February 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 17,571

So the words are the same, except for this tiny way that they are different--which happens to be the distinction we're all talking about--but that's just semantical hair-splitting. I think this might be called begging the question.
I don't see how they are different. They are the same, it's how they are being used that is different. One group is using it as a starting point, the other as an ending point.

As for the colorblind example (and the mathematics one above) the point is that for a time scientists did have faith that was the case, they would have no reason not to because that is what they could observe with the tools they had. However the difference is that they continued to experiment and observe and eventually proved those things that once the majority of science would have believed in as wrong (just like certain mathematical concepts made sense until we started learning more about how the universe worked).

But this is not a difference between faith and not faith, it's a difference in how it's applied.

I guess I really don't see them as re-defining the meaning of faith so much as trying to use the word without the various hangups many people have about it. Faith means you believe in something without personally knowing it to be true, I don't see how it is different than Joe's term "Core assumptions", he believes in those things even though he doesn't know them to be true either.
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