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Old 28 November 2017, 04:33 PM
thorny locust's Avatar
thorny locust thorny locust is offline
Join Date: 27 April 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 9,909

Seaboe, I think you've got your example people mixed up, don't you? Cis women are women who are female on their birth certificates and also in their identification. XX women are probably cis, but chromosomes don't always match genital appearance at birth, which is what gender assignments are usually made by.

I don't see how it's enforceable in practice except by posting guards outside all multi-stall bathroom doors to either check ID, and/or make everybody drop their pants outside the john to show their genitals. The first doesn't work for the intended purpose if some people's ID's have been changed to reflect the new/more accurate gender. And the second doesn't work for the intended purpose if people have had surgery and/or are intersex. And of course neither of them works for any purpose because, even aside from privacy issues, who's going to pay for all of those guards? [ETA: plus which, of course, neither of them works because either will result in some people being allowed only into the women's room who will be taken by other users for men, and vice versa.]

A law saying people had to use the bathroom designed for the gender they're presenting as would solve some of those problems, but (aside from not satisfying the people who are trying to jam everybody into one of two boxes) would create a new set. What about people who present ambiguously? And how are you going to define presentation? I mean, I am very cis female (though it's true I've never had my DNA checked.) But my outer clothing is often work pants and shirt and boots designed for men. If I weren't large breasted, I might well confuse people. And I know flat chested cis females who dress similarly.

When you add on to all of this the fact that at least a large part of the reason for separating the genders in bathrooms was a presumption that people couldn't be sexually attracted to others of the same gender, and that this is obviously not true . . . it seems to me that we need to provide a reasonable degree of individual privacy in bathrooms etc., and then stop worrying about who's using which one. Everybody uses the same bathrooms in houses, on planes, etc. anyway.

Last edited by thorny locust; 28 November 2017 at 04:46 PM.