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snopes 12 April 2013 03:12 AM

Hell
 
Comment: I have been told that the early tracts of the Bible have no
mention of Hell. That Hell is an addition to the bible by the church and
was never even conceived of in the old scrolls. True or not true?

damian 12 April 2013 06:46 AM

Does it matter when a made-up place is included in a fiction book?

Jefuemon 12 April 2013 11:09 AM

Why is Hell a place of suffering? Isn't the Devil's job to be totally opposite of God? So, if you are so heinous in life that God wants nothing to do with you, and you go to Hell, why would the Devil punish you? Wouldn't it be party time? Or is the Devil really God's jailer in disguise? :confused:

Skeptic 12 April 2013 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damian (Post 1728593)
Does it matter when a made-up place is included in a fiction book?

Couldn't have said it better myself. I always marvelled at the eye-witness accounts of hell we were given by the nuns.

boogers 12 April 2013 02:03 PM

Eye witness? When I was a kid we all knew that blue jays went to Hell on the weekends to help gather firewood (this was before Hell got central heating) but I didn't know the nuns were in on it too.

Thera 13 April 2013 02:44 AM

When people died in the Old Testament, they went to Sheol. It meant going into a common grave. Didn't matter if you were good or bad.

Gehenna was a place outside the town where everyone tossed out their trash (including dead bodies), which was kept perpetually burning. The word is used alternatively with Hell.

Here is a quote:

Quote:

Matthew 18:8-9 (PHILLIPS) | In Context | Whole Chapter
The right way may mean costly sacrifice

8-9 “If your hand or your foot is a hindrance to your faith, cut it off and throw it away. It is a good thing to go into life maimed or crippled—rather than to have both hands and feet and be thrown on to the everlasting fire. Yes, and if your eye leads you astray, tear it out and throw it away. It is a good thing to go one-eyed into life—rather than to have both your eyes and be thrown on the fire of the rubbish heap.
In most other translations, "rubbish heap" is called "hell".

I'm no biblical scholar, I welcome corrections.

Furienna 29 April 2013 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damian (Post 1728593)
Does it matter when a made-up place is included in a fiction book?

Not that I believe in Hell either, but the Bible is a religious scrpicture, not a fiction book. Even if you don't believe in any of its stories, there's a difference.

Furienna 29 April 2013 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jefuemon (Post 1728616)
Why is Hell a place of suffering? Isn't the Devil's job to be totally opposite of God? So, if you are so heinous in life that God wants nothing to do with you, and you go to Hell, why would the Devil punish you? Wouldn't it be party time? Or is the Devil really God's jailer in disguise? :confused:

Actually, yes. The book of Job describes the Devil as a prosecutor, who wants God to let him punish people.

Lainie 29 April 2013 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thera (Post 1728795)
Gehenna was a place outside the town where everyone tossed out their trash (including dead bodies), which was kept perpetually burning. The word is used alternatively with Hell.

There's a Columbus suburb called Gahanna. I don't know what the origin of the name is, but it always reminds of Gehenna.

Auburn Red 30 April 2013 01:34 AM

Well the name Hell appears not to have been used until the King James Bible, where I wonder if it was coined for the Hebrew word "Sheol" and the Norse goddess of the underworld "Hel." Early versions of the New Testament to have used the Greek term "Hades" or "Tartarus," the terms used for the Underworld in Greek mythology. So in other words, "We don't want you to worship other gods but we don't mind using their names to talk about our god." :rolleyes:

Steve 30 April 2013 02:24 AM

The English word "Hell" is older than the KJV, and you're right, it might have some connection to the similar Norse word. http://etymonline.com/?term=hell

crocoduck_hunter 30 April 2013 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furienna (Post 1732982)
Not that I believe in Hell either, but the Bible is a religious scrpicture, not a fiction book. Even if you don't believe in any of its stories, there's a difference.

Not really. If the stories contained in a book are not true, there's really nothing for them to be but fiction, regardless of whether or not some people believe otherwise.

Richard W 30 April 2013 08:45 AM

That's not a very nuanced attitude to language - "truth" and "fiction" aren't binary well-defined things. There are lots of types of writing which aren't "true" but aren't "fiction" either. What about a discredited scientific theory? Or a history book written before a particular discovery was made that changed the interpretation?

Furienna 30 April 2013 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 1733032)
The English word "Hell" is older than the KJV, and you're right, it might have some connection to the similar Norse word. http://etymonline.com/?term=hell

The words sure are connected. In modern Swedish, the word has evolved into "helvete" (now a very common swear word), which orginally meant "the punishment you will get in Hell". But if we talk about the old mythology, both the place and the goddess are called "Hel", which also would be the original word.

It's interesting too that both the ancient Greeks and the ancient Norse would use the same name for the place, where you ended up after death, and the deity ruling over it (Hades and Hel respectively).

Richard W 30 April 2013 09:10 AM

For Swedes, Hell is Switzerland?

Furienna 30 April 2013 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter (Post 1733071)
Not really. If the stories contained in a book are not true, there's really nothing for them to be but fiction, regardless of whether or not some people believe otherwise.

How do you know that they're not true? Even if some aren't, others could be. And myths, whether you happen to believe in them or not, are never fiction.

damian 30 April 2013 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furienna (Post 1732982)
Not that I believe in Hell either, but the Bible is a religious scrpicture, not a fiction book. Even if you don't believe in any of its stories, there's a difference.

If it's not fiction, then it is a lie. Subtle distinction. One is meant to entertain, the other is meant to deceive.

People are taught to believe it is real. Doesn't mean it is. Calling it religious scripture doesn't make it real.

Furienna 30 April 2013 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard W (Post 1733097)
For Swedes, Hell is Switzerland?

No, but I understand what you mean, as Helvetia is the old name for Switzerland. But the words aren't connected to each other, as the name for Switzerland goes back to a Celtic tribe and has a totally different meaning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetia

Furienna 30 April 2013 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damian (Post 1733099)
If it's not fiction, then it is a lie. Subtle distinction. One is meant to entertain, the other is meant to deceive.

People are taught to believe it is real. Doesn't mean it is. Calling it religious scripture doesn't make it real.

It does put it in another cathegory than fiction though. If you search for the Bible in the library, you won't find it in the fiction section, as it doesn't belong there. At least here in Sweden, it's under the religion section, and that perfectly shows where the Bible belongs: Not in the history section or the science section, or in the fiction section.

damian 30 April 2013 09:25 AM

That's only because the library is scared of offending religious nutjobs.

eta It occurred to me that there are 2 things we'll have little need for in the future: libraries and religion.


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