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-   -   Texas State Board of Education votes to erase Hillary Clinton from history curriculum (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=96975)

crocoduck_hunter 15 September 2018 05:37 PM

Texas State Board of Education votes to erase Hillary Clinton from history curriculum
 
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/te...z&ocid=U007DHP

Quote:

The State Board of Education in Texas voted on Friday to eliminate several historical figures, including Hillary Clinton and Helen Keller, from the state's social studies curriculum.

Barbara Cargill, a Texas Republican and member of the board, told The Dallas Morning News that "the recommendation to eliminate Helen Keller and Hillary Clinton was made by [Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills] work groups."

"However the board did vote to agree with the work groups' recommendations," Cargill pointed out. "In speaking to teachers and testifiers, they did not mention these specific deletions."
Yeah, I got nothing here.

ASL 15 September 2018 05:41 PM

I guess I’d want to know who they kept and who they added before I decide to care.

Sue 15 September 2018 05:45 PM

My main issue would be that there are already so few women being mentioned, let alone studied, in history. But by all means let's delete mention of some of the few.

GenYus234 15 September 2018 06:19 PM

At this point I'm just glad they didn't revise Hillary's entry to state that she personally murdered everyone at the Libyan embassies and is solely responsible for every data breach that exposed people to identity theft.

thorny locust 15 September 2018 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASL (Post 1987363)
I guess I’d want to know who they kept and who they added before I decide to care.

According to this article:

Quote:

The board also made decisions to keep some references in the curriculum which had been recommended for removal by a working group tasked with streamlining the curriculum, such as a description of the "heroism" of people who defended the Alamo, according to The Dallas Morning News. The board voted to keep references of "Judeo-Christian" values and their influence on American politics and history.

They also voted to reinsert the Biblical figure Moses as an influence on American politics, and remove philosopher Thomas Hobbes from the section on "individuals whose principles of laws and government institutions informed the American founding."

SatansHobbit 15 September 2018 11:07 PM

Quote:

"...the recommendation to eliminate Helen Keller..."
She never saw it coming.

dfresh 16 September 2018 02:06 AM

I am at a lose as to Moses' influence on American politics. Is he why we insist our laws be written on stone tablets, or take direction from burning bushes? Is he behind why we elected two Bushes as president?

Esprise Me 16 September 2018 04:05 AM

Well, he was the messenger for the ten commandments, which adorn many courthouses, which makes perfect sense since half of our laws are about whom and how to worship.

Kermor 16 September 2018 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SatansHobbit (Post 1987384)
She never saw it coming.

And she won't hear about it either.

Don't worry, I'll do it :

:fish:

Still, I find those deletions suspicious, to say the least.

Jusenkyo no Pikachu 16 September 2018 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenYus234 (Post 1987365)
At this point I'm just glad they didn't revise Hillary's entry to state that she personally murdered everyone at the Libyan embassies and is solely responsible for every data breach that exposed people to identity theft.

And Helen hated white Christians. Don’t forget that.

RichardM 16 September 2018 05:27 PM

The Texas State Board of Education has wanted to teach THE BIBLE. That makes it very hard to teach algebra let alone evolution.

crocoduck_hunter 16 September 2018 07:01 PM

But having pi as a whole number will simplify trig.

RichardM 16 September 2018 11:08 PM

That was Tennessee (allegedly). Besides the Texas Board thinks pi was a character in some movie. Now in Alabama (where I received my primary education) we learned pie are round. Cornbread is square.

crocoduck_hunter 17 September 2018 12:40 AM

I was referring to pi being considered a whole number in the Old Testament.

ASL 17 September 2018 01:24 AM

I wouldn’t say they “considered it” a whole number so much as they lacked both our tendency towards precision in measurements (although of course there were exceptions amongst people who actually "built" things) and, most critically, our conception of anything but natural numbers (and some fractions). Yes, I am aware the criticism is that god could have given Noah a more precise value, but there are many far more egregious errors with Genesis that go far beyond a mere approximation of an actual value. Basically all of Genesis, actually, since none of it happened except maybe there really were these people called Hebrews who then went on to call themselves Israelites.

Anyways, a fair interpretation was that god was as precise as he needed to be under the circumstances and that being much more precise would only have added confusion.

RichardM 17 September 2018 01:51 AM

Well of course if we are going to follow the Bible, we would be measuring in cubits.

UEL 17 September 2018 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardM (Post 1987440)
Well of course if we are going to follow the Bible, we would be measuring in cubits.

Given that the rest of the world has gone metric, you may as well be measuring in cubits. :lol:

Mouse 18 September 2018 03:22 AM

They’ve removed Helen Keller...I’d wonder if it’s because someone finally told them that she became a radical Socialist, who would later help fund the ACLU, and wasn’t just that “Deaf and Blind girl who done learned to talk.” If they did, I might be able to credit Texas State Board of Education with some brain cells. It seems unlikely. Fun fact: though people like to use Helen Keller in hackneyed inspirational stories and crow about how she learned to speak, none of them are the least bit interested in what she had to say.

Steve 18 September 2018 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse (Post 1987499)
They’ve removed Helen Keller...I’d wonder if it’s because someone finally told them that she became a radical Socialist, who would later help fund the ACLU, and wasn’t just that “Deaf and Blind girl who done learned to talk.” If they did, I might be able to credit Texas State Board of Education with some brain cells. It seems unlikely. Fun fact: though people like to use Helen Keller in hackneyed inspirational stories and crow about how she learned to speak, none of them are the least bit interested in what she had to say.

Another fun fact. She was a cheerleader for a genocidal regime. Downplaying her stupid politics is doing her a favor. The woman praised Lenin for God’s sake. Over coming her disabilities is inspirational. Hearing about her politics is nauseating.

GenYus234 18 September 2018 05:33 AM

We'd better get Charles Lindberg out of the history books then.

Steve 18 September 2018 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenYus234 (Post 1987507)
We'd better get Charles Lindberg out of the history books then.

No need. But we should be honest about him. The same way we should be honest about Keller. Her left wing views weren’t limited to aiding the he ACLU.

Sue 18 September 2018 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse (Post 1987499)
They’ve removed Helen Keller...I’d wonder if it’s because someone finally told them that she became a radical Socialist, who would later help fund the ACLU, and wasn’t just that “Deaf and Blind girl who done learned to talk.” If they did, I might be able to credit Texas State Board of Education with some brain cells. It seems unlikely. Fun fact: though people like to use Helen Keller in hackneyed inspirational stories and crow about how she learned to speak, none of them are the least bit interested in what she had to say.

Helen Keller is still extremely well known and was also a major historical figure who deserves to be remembered - teach kids about the positives of her life and the way she contributed to the world and teach them that even great people have their flaws. If the reason she's being expunged is down to her politics that's just ridiculous. And a decision I would expect to be made by people who are probably studiously getting all their news from Fox and pretending that this makes them well rounded :rolleyes:.

RichardM 18 September 2018 03:26 PM

The local news interviewed a woman from El Paso who said she was glad Hillary was being cut out but thought Helen Keller should be kept in.

Sue 18 September 2018 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardM (Post 1987529)
The local news interviewed a woman from El Paso who said she was glad Hillary was being cut out but thought Helen Keller should be kept in.

How are they planning to cover the election of Trump? Trump ran unopposed in 2016 ... or... Although Trump lost the popular vote to She Who Must Not Be Named in 2016 he still got the Electoral College?

RichardM 18 September 2018 04:37 PM

Lord only knows. They will invent something and proclaim it to be fact. After all the orange one does that.

Darth Credence 18 September 2018 06:03 PM

Come on, Sue - there is no way that they will mention that he lost the popular vote.

Mouse 19 September 2018 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth Credence (Post 1987542)
Come on, Sue - there is no way that they will mention that he lost the popular vote.

In fact, there wasn't any need for a vote at all. Jesus Christ came down, crowned in glory, and placed said crown upon Trump's head, saying that Trump is his divinely appointed servant and all those who believe otherwise, are jealous poopy-heads. Also Trump's rod and staff is...I'll stop here and fish myself, save everyone the trouble. :fish:

Back to Helen Keller, while her admiration for Lenin may seem shortsighted and treasonous by our standards, she was hardly alone in this. A lot of people on the Left looked with admiration on the Russian Revolution and the government that came into power as a result. It seemed like a dream come true, the tyranny of the Czar had been overthrown and now the means of production belong to the people and everything's going to be great! They may have been naïve in their views of Lenin and what he represented, but hindsight is always 20/20. After all, there were government leaders who initially praised Hitler before they wound up fighting against him.

In any case, what led to Helen Keller eventually embracing Socialism, was her realization that so much of what she had accomplished, was possible because she was the child of wealthy Southern gentry who could afford to pay for the best possible education for their deaf-blind daughter. If she had been born to Joe and Jane Sharecropper, she might have been dumped in state facility to rot.

What led her to this revelation was touring factory and mill towns, witnessing the squalor and poverty the workers lived in and the effects it had on them and their children. When she sat down and tried to simplify the Braille alphabet to make it easier for everyone to use, Keller quickly realized that blindness wasn't an affliction equally distributed among all social levels, but was concentrated at the very bottom of the societal pyramid. The poor were more likely to get sick, get hurt, and thus become blind as a result.

In her words:

Quote:

I had once believed that we were all masters of our fate— that we could mold our lives into any form we pleased. . . . I had overcome deafness and blindness sufficiently to be happy, and I supposed that anyone could come out victorious if he threw himself valiantly into life’s struggle. But as I went more and more about the country I learned that I had spoken with assurance on a subject I knew little about. . . . I learned that the power to rise in the world is not within the reach of everyone. —HELEN KELLER
And I suppose I should really stop bringing all this up--it barely connects to anything--but I just find it really interesting. History cannot and isn't ever treated neutrally by the wider culture, and invariably, historical figures wind up being put under various lens and ideas. Again for all the talk about how Inspirational™ Helen Keller is, culture has kept her forever frozen in childhood, and while they acknowledge that she learned to speak, they keep her silent as well.

Though Helen Keller was well aware of how she was regarded, after embracing Socialism. In response to an editorial basically saying, "Well she's deaf and blind, which probably affects her ability to reason," she talked about how she had met him at a party:

Quote:

“At that time the compliments he paid me were so generous that I blush to remember them. But now that I have come out for socialism he reminds me and the public that I am blind and deaf and especially liable to error. I must have shrunk in intelligence during the years since I met him.”
Again, Keller is celebrated for learning to speak, but culture continually silences her, because they'd rather not hear a word she has to say.

ASL 19 September 2018 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse (Post 1987572)
Back to Helen Keller, while her admiration for Lenin may seem shortsighted and treasonous by our standards, she was hardly alone in this. A lot of people on the Left looked with admiration on the Russian Revolution and the government that came into power as a result.

So you’re saying nothing’s changed? ;)

Sue 19 September 2018 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse (Post 1987572)

Again, Keller is celebrated for learning to speak, but culture continually silences her, because they'd rather not hear a word she has to say.

That's not unique to Helen Keller. My biggest issue with erasing any notable woman from a history curriculum is that there are so few women who have ever been considered "worthy" enough to even be mentioned in a history book in the first place. That the effort (it seems) to silence and erase women who do not conform to a rigid standard is even newsworthy is a good thing, I guess. Up until fairly recently no one was even noticing.

Sue 19 September 2018 09:28 PM

Texas' twisted excuse for removing Helen Keller
 
Perhaps the most overtly dogmatic cut was the deletion of the phrase, "such as holding public officials to their word" from a fourth-grade unit on how to participate in civic affairs. But the erasure of Helen Keller, an iconic advocate for the deaf and blind whose social activism also included women's suffrage, birth control and pacifism -- who is currently taught as part of a third-grade unit on citizenship -- is an underhanded play with a troubling message: that homogeny is normal and exposure to outside perspectives should be limited.
To remove Keller from the curriculum also means to eliminate the single touchstone for deafness and disability for most mainstream students. Earlier this week, I asked a room of 35 of my own college students if they'd ever met a deaf person who wasn't me. Four or five raised their hands—they worked retail and had seen deaf customers. Many of these students are considering fields like social work, education, criminal justice, occupational and speech therapy and law, where knowledge of deafness and disability will be integral to their work, and still their exposure is extremely limited long past the third grade. This is the norm in a society that constantly tells us to avert our eyes from disabled people, to separate out "normal" and "other."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/19/opini...vic/index.html

Steve 23 September 2018 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse (Post 1987572)

Back to Helen Keller, while her admiration for Lenin may seem shortsighted and treasonous by our standards, she was hardly alone in this. A lot of people on the Left looked with admiration on the Russian Revolution and the government that came into power as a result. It seemed like a dream come true, the tyranny of the Czar had been overthrown and now the means of production belong to the people and everything's going to be great! They may have been naïve in their views of Lenin and what he represented, but hindsight is always 20/20.

No, they were just stupid. This isn't hard.
Quote:

After all, there were government leaders who initially praised Hitler before they wound up fighting against him.
Yes, Stalin.

Quote:

In any case, what led to Helen Keller eventually embracing Socialism, was her realization that so much of what she had accomplished, was possible because she was the child of wealthy Southern gentry who could afford to pay for the best possible education for their deaf-blind daughter. If she had been born to Joe and Jane Sharecropper, she might have been dumped in state facility to rot.
And the Russian Revolution helped ordinary farmers out of poverty? Come on.
Quote:


What led her to this revelation was touring factory and mill towns, witnessing the squalor and poverty the workers lived in and the effects it had on them and their children. When she sat down and tried to simplify the Braille alphabet to make it easier for everyone to use, Keller quickly realized that blindness wasn't an affliction equally distributed among all social levels, but was concentrated at the very bottom of the societal pyramid. The poor were more likely to get sick, get hurt, and thus become blind as a result.
None of this has anything to to do with the Russian Revolution. This isn't hard.
Quote:

Again, Keller is celebrated for learning to speak, but culture continually silences her, because they'd rather not hear a word she has to say.
Because embracing Leninism should embarrass any human being. This isn't people not wanting to listen to a deaf and blind woman. This is people not wanting to listen to a woman who apparently doesn't mind mass murder.

thorny locust 23 September 2018 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 1987949)
No, they were just stupid. This isn't hard.

It's really really easy with 20-20 hindsight, yes.

Plenty of people with brains had hopes that the Russian Revolution would lead somewhere entirely different than it did.

Blatherskite 23 September 2018 04:24 PM

Most of the instigators of the Russian Revolution, for starters. To dismiss people as stupid for not seeing where their part in history would end up is, itself, pretty daft.

GenYus234 23 September 2018 05:52 PM

Ignoring the vast oversimplification and hindsighting, shouldn't history books include people on the "wrong" side of history? How will we recognize the negative in modern politics if we haven't seen how it worked before?

Lainie 23 September 2018 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve (Post 1987949)
And the Russian Revolution helped ordinary farmers out of poverty? Come on.

Come on yourself, no one has made that claim.

thorny locust 23 September 2018 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenYus234 (Post 1987974)
Ignoring the vast oversimplification and hindsighting, shouldn't history books include people on the "wrong" side of history? How will we recognize the negative in modern politics if we haven't seen how it worked before?

A very good point.

Don't silence Keller. Teach why she said what she did; and why and where she was wrong. It wasn't only Keller, after all; a lot of people made that same mistake for similar reasons.

Lainie 23 September 2018 07:01 PM

Yeah, it's not hard. Come on. :-)

UEL 23 September 2018 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lainie (Post 1987983)
Yeah, it's not hard. Come on. :-)

Welcome back, Lainie.

Mouse 24 September 2018 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenYus234 (Post 1987974)
Ignoring the vast oversimplification and hindsighting, shouldn't history books include people on the "wrong" side of history? How will we recognize the negative in modern politics if we haven't seen how it worked before?

That is a really good point. The problem with historical orthodoxy, which treats historical figures as white marble icons, practically perfect in every way, is not only is it bad history, it’s boring history. It robs the great story of any drama, any points where you can speculate on “What if we’d done X instead of Y?” You could study how Andrew Johnson handled Reconstruction, the background from which he approached it, judge where he succeeded, where he failed, and what he should have done. Also with that in mind, there could be an interesting discussion/debate as to whether Lincoln would have done better, how would he have approached Reconstruction.

Having our historical figures as plaster saints is not only boring, but it also robs the great story of any heroes and inspiration. You can draw inspiration from a flawed human being who managed to, at times, overcome their flaws and accomplish great things. After all, you can dredge up some quotes where President Lincoln was pretty damn racist, yet he still freed the slaves.

Sorry to keep going back to Lincoln, but he is such a good example. There’s such a wealth of material to explore like how the beliefs he had at the beginning of his career, changed, and how he played and used politics to his advantage.

If he was speaking for a group of staunch abolitionists, his language is more anti-slavery, than he would be if he was talking to people in the slave-owning states in the Union. That was an oft-heard criticism of his Emancipation Proclamation: it freed the slaves in Confederate states, but left out the slave-owning states in the Union. There’s something to talk about there why Lincoln might have done this, whether he was right to have done so, and what might have happened if he had proclaimed ALL the slaves to be free.

With this kind of historical education, it teaches that all the back-biting and double-dealing in politics is absolutely nothing new and is part of a longstanding tradition. Knowing details like the Founding Fathers likely celebrated the writing of the Constitution, by getting royally, stinking drunk, humanizes them and makes them so much more interesting than how they are often used, invoked as godlike figures.

ASL 24 September 2018 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse (Post 1987996)
There’s something to talk about there why Lincoln might have done this, whether he was right to have done so, and what might have happened if he had proclaimed ALL the slaves to be free.

What do you think would have happened? And why?

If you don’t mind the threadjack...


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