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-   -   Police Kill 28-Year-Old After 'Swatting' Call (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=96332)

Sooeygun 02 January 2018 05:27 PM

Police Kill 28-Year-Old After 'Swatting' Call
 
https://compete.kotaku.com/police-ki...all-1821648110

http://www.kansas.com/news/local/cri...192081124.html

Quote:

A 28-year-old man was shot and killed by a Wichita police officer after a reported hostage situation call last night. At a press conference this afternoon, Wichita police said it was a false call meant to draw SWAT officers to the scene, an act known as “swatting.” It appears to have been linked to an argument over Call of Duty, although police have not confirmed that.

Lainie 02 January 2018 05:33 PM

The comments from the guy who apparently made the call make me want to slap him repeatedly.

crocoduck_hunter 02 January 2018 06:19 PM

Everyone involved in that call should be charged, and police procedure needs to be overhauled to make Swatting impossible.

Lainie 02 January 2018 06:22 PM

This is a start: LAPD arrested a 25-year-old suspect in Wichita "swatting" case.

That article doesn't include the infuriating quotes, or even the guy's name.

erwins 02 January 2018 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter (Post 1968133)
Everyone involved in that call should be charged, and police procedure needs to be overhauled to make Swatting impossible.

What do you think should be done that would make swatting impossible?

Lainie 02 January 2018 08:29 PM

We can't really expect the cops to call back and confirm the situation.

Sue 02 January 2018 08:33 PM

While making swatting impossible might be a dream a good first start to eliminating innocent people being killed by the police is to not open fire on unarmed individuals whose only crime was opening their door.

GenYus234 02 January 2018 08:36 PM

One method that could make it less likely that violence would result would be a cross-reference of the originating caller's location. If the cell tower that is taking the call or the IP routing or land-line switching station is not near the location being reported, that information could be added to the report to police. All of that can probably be spoofed of course, but doing so requires additional levels of knowledge that might be beyond some swatters.

NobleHunter 02 January 2018 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenYus234 (Post 1968152)
One method that could make it less likely that violence would result would be a cross-reference of the originating caller's location. If the cell tower that is taking the call or the IP routing or land-line switching station is not near the location being reported, that information could be added to the report to police. All of that can probably be spoofed of course, but doing so requires additional levels of knowledge that might be beyond some swatters.

I think the call was on a non-emergency line which would made it easier to hide the origin of the call.

GenYus234 02 January 2018 08:52 PM

It was on a 911 line, but regular police lines should have the same ability to trace and/or locate phones as 911 operators. This issue aside, there are a number of reasons why it would be advantageous and few reasons why such tracing ability shouldn't be available. ETA: The main argument for would be so the tracing ability would be available to emergency calls made to the regular police telephone system rather than to 911.

The main one against it would be anonymous informants. But such calls could be easily made to separate lines altogether such as those maintained by Crime Stoppers.

Lainie 02 January 2018 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sue (Post 1968150)
While making swatting impossible might be a dream a good first start to eliminating innocent people being killed by the police is to not open fire on unarmed individuals whose only crime was opening their door.

Absolutely. I'm sure the "swatters" know how risky this behavior is, too, but they just don't care.

crocoduck_hunter 02 January 2018 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erwins (Post 1968148)
What do you think should be done that would make swatting impossible?

Well, maybe changing SWAT procedures so they don't get rolled out ready to shoot on the word of a single called-in tip that isn't even from the same state might be a good start.

E. Q. Taft 03 January 2018 12:02 AM

I can definitely agree that it shouldn't be so easy to 'swat' someone, even to the degree of just causing them trouble, rather than getting them killed. At the same time, when police hear that lives are in immediate danger, they have to react quickly. The first time that someone winds up getting killed or injured because police didn't react quickly enough while they were "fact-checking" the call, you get hit with the other side of the argument.

One thing I might suggest is to make enforcement of laws against false reporting more vigorous and penalties serious. Even if this call had ended with no physical harm to anyone, I think the perpetrators should be charged -- false reporting, reckless endangerment, and perhaps slapped with the financial liability for the cost of responding to the call. When it does result in loss of life, I think that at least a manslaughter or negligent homicide charge is appropriate. And when it's an interstate call, why not make it a federal crime?

diddy 03 January 2018 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft (Post 1968172)
I can definitely agree that it shouldn't be so easy to 'swat' someone, even to the degree of just causing them trouble, rather than getting them killed. At the same time, when police hear that lives are in immediate danger, they have to react quickly. The first time that someone winds up getting killed or injured because police didn't react quickly enough while they were "fact-checking" the call, you get hit with the other side of the argument.

Agreed. The more time that the police take in a real emergency to verify things, the bigger the blowback later on. Verification of such takes time in real life and who is going to do this? Who is going to fund this? How do you deal with multiple departments?

Quote:

One thing I might suggest is to make enforcement of laws against false reporting more vigorous and penalties serious. Even if this call had ended with no physical harm to anyone, I think the perpetrators should be charged -- false reporting, reckless endangerment, and perhaps slapped with the financial liability for the cost of responding to the call. When it does result in loss of life, I think that at least a manslaughter or negligent homicide charge is appropriate. And when it's an interstate call, why not make it a federal crime?
I agree with this too but the problem I see is that swatting incidents can come from anywhere. This makes going after the guy that much harder since there are jurisdiction issues. Now you gotta expend tons of resources to go after the guy which means getting prosecutors on board, laws need to get overhauled etc. Plus investigating this stuff is only going to get harder with technology improvements with spoofing.

The biggest issue dealing with this is that part of this is a technical aspect to it. I know that people will get the idea of police resources being abused (though given peoples instinct to back the police no matter what I don't see much action taken to change their policies - it's already hard to stop shootings as it is), getting people to understand the technical aspects means people are going to tune out.

WildaBeast 03 January 2018 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft (Post 1968172)
One thing I might suggest is to make enforcement of laws against false reporting more vigorous and penalties serious.

This morning NPR interviewed a congresswoman who had introduced a federal anti-swatting bill. She herself got swatted herself after she introduced the bill. I mean there's no definitive proof that that's the reason she got swatted, but it seems like the most likely explanation.

Lainie 03 January 2018 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diddy (Post 1968178)
I agree with this too but the problem I see is that swatting incidents can come from anywhere. This makes going after the guy that much harder since there are jurisdiction issues.

Hence suggestions to make it a Federal crime. One jurisdiction for the whole country.

ETA: That doesn't address international swatting, but it's the best an individual nation could do.

Aud 1 03 January 2018 03:36 PM

What I find so infuriating about this is that even if this were a legit hostage situation, it could very well have been the hostage opening the door. The cops knew there were innocent people in the building. The swatting is no excuse.

Then this happened Police officer’s shot misses dog, injures girl in home in the same town. Someone needs to tell them "shoot the hostage" is a movie plot and not a legit tactic.

Blatherskite 04 January 2018 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aud 1 (Post 1968211)
What I find so infuriating about this is that even if this were a legit hostage situation, it could very well have been the hostage opening the door. The cops knew there were innocent people in the building. The swatting is no excuse.

And even if it were a legitimate hostage situation and the victim had been a hostage-taker, he could have been about to give himself up!

I've not read any indication that the police believed he had a gun on him or acting in a threatening way when they arrived. Isn't the point of a swat team to take out an armed person if necessary? Not just to show up and shoot the suspect on sight?

Koshka 04 January 2018 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blatherskite (Post 1968295)
I've not read any indication that the police believed he had a gun on him or acting in a threatening way when they arrived. Isn't the point of a swat team to take out an armed person if necessary? Not just to show up and shoot the suspect on sight?

In the news reports I've seen, the Wichita PD is still saying the man kept moving his hands to his waistband despite multiple "keep them in the air" demands. OTOH, the man's family, who were inside the house at the time, say they didn't hear a single one of those demands -- just the gunshot.

One would think bodycam footage would be able to settle that, but with the family demanding criminal charges against the cop I'm not holding my breath waiting for that footage to be released.

Lainie 04 January 2018 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blatherskite (Post 1968295)
. Isn't the point of a swat team to take out an armed person if necessary? Not just to show up and shoot the suspect on sight?

Theoretically, yes. But a lot of cops don't seem to grasp that distinction. :mad:


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