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-   -   Parents Of Children Who Were Killed In Sandy Hook Are Suing Alex Jones (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=96612)

thorny locust 19 April 2018 01:20 AM

Parents Of Children Who Were Killed In Sandy Hook Are Suing Alex Jones
 
The whole title won't fit, here it is again with link:

Parents Of Children Who Were Killed In Sandy Hook Are Suing Alex Jones Over His Conspiracy Theories

Quote:

Infowars host Alex Jones is being sued by the parents of two children killed in the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre over his claims that it was a hoax.

Jones' conspiracy theories led to death threats and "intense emotional anguish," the parents allege in two separate lawsuits that seek more than $1 million in damages each.
-- I think I posted some time ago that I didn't understand why people couldn't be sued for this sort of thing -- ah, there's the post; it was in a thread about a different attack, so I won't just add on to that one as it might be confusing. Several people answered me at the time with reasons; but it looks like we're going to get a test case. Hope they win it.

crocoduck_hunter 19 April 2018 01:51 AM

I'd say that I hope they successfully sue him to bankruptcy, but I'm sure his crazed, deluded horde will happily pitch in to provide him with Right Wing Welfare.

Mouse 20 April 2018 01:37 AM

I don't know how much money they'll get out of him, but I still applaud them for trying. Go Sandy Hook parents, go!

Dasla 20 April 2018 04:23 AM

Most of the mass shooting have made me angry but Sandy Hook made me cry. It just keeps happening and there doesn't seem to be a solution. There should be but there isn't. There is in other countries but well you know shrug.

And then there is this nfbsk adding insult to injury by saying they made it all up. :mad: The little f-wit. There is no measure of my contempt for the people who tell people who have lost their children they made it all up. :(

Mouse 21 April 2018 03:38 AM

Sandy Hook gets me too, Dasla. When not even a bunch of dead kindergarteners can get any legislation passed, it really shows just how NFBSKed up this country's priorities are. In fact not only could we not get any new gun control legislation passed, in the wake of Sandy Hook, we further loosened what laws we DID have. :mad:

Sandy Hook was a moral litmus test for this country, one that we failed miserably.

Thing is, most Americans, when polled, overwhelmingly agree that new legislation is needed; even most gun owners agree that there should be restrictions on guns. Only a small percentage of gun owners are even members of the NRA. Yet in spite of all this, we can't get any legislation passed; we are effectively being held hostage by a sliver of the population, members of a cult that exists to fellate gun manufacturers.

The False Flag BS further pisses me off. As I've already pointed out, it didn't NFBSKing work. It seems the Right has a hard time telling when they've won. An example of this, is this essay Ben Garrison attached to one of his cartoons. He seemingly hasn't figured out that Hillary actually lost the election. The eeeevil Deep State* that manipulates and controls everything from the shadows, actually failed at their plan to get Hillary elected; they really, really suck at their jobs.

It probably goes with another reoccurring meme on the Right: it isn't enough for them to have everything, if they can't have the tears of losers as well. Hence their constant whinging about how they are the most persecuted, oppressed people EVER! despite controlling all three branches of government and having enough money to buy the world ten times over.

*I assume that "Deep State" is a dogwhistle for "The Jews." Nearly every asinine idea on the Right can be traced back to Antisemitism or White Supremacy, but it's no longer socially acceptable for a politician to rant and rave about the Jews anymore. Though given what's going on now, I'm not sure how much longer that will be true. :(

crocoduck_hunter 21 April 2018 03:53 AM

This year also marks the 19th anniversary of the Columbine shooting and the 20th anniversary of the Thurston shooting in Eugene, Oregon. Which were both horrific but at least there was no organized effort to demonize the survivors or claim that the shootings didn't happen, since that was back in the days when conservatives just blamed it all on video games and rap music.

musicgeek 21 April 2018 03:55 AM

I don't know that the "Deep State" is necessarily aimed at the Jews. From what I can tell, the idea is that the completely incompetent, unintelligent, and universally-reviled-by-the-military-and-all-true-patriots black man who formerly occupied the White House somehow nevertheless managed to create a deeply entrenched array of government operatives that would remain in place once he left power, so that the aims of all right-thinking good conservatives, duly elected to power, would be hopelessly thwarted. Now, while it's possible that this is because the black man (obviously not capable of such complex machinations himself, because, well, come on...) was/is a puppet of the Evil Zionists™, it's just as possible that the Deep State is beholden to David Ickes' lizard people. Or the apparently all-powerful Black Lives Matter movement. Or the snopes Secret Liberal Cabal. As long as it's somebody else's fault. And that's why we need high-capacity magazines and completely unfettered access to vast stockpiles of weaponry, because we don't know just how big this enemy force really is.

In fairness, I personally know a few left-leaning folks who are prone to spouting conspiracy theory BS online, but I've yet to see anything on the scale of Jones and his ilk. Furthermore, when I post a snopes page, etc., debunking the theory du jour in response to one of their posts, the reaction is usually a "like," and perhaps some more nuanced discussion or even a dropping of the matter. When I see a right-wing conspiracy theory challenged online, it's invariably followed by a hate-filled stream of invective characterized by shifting goalposts, ad hominem attacks, and general doubling down on the batNFBSK insanity.

Plurabelle 21 April 2018 05:48 PM

Good....
extra characters

Mouse 22 April 2018 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter (Post 1977073)
This year also marks the 19th anniversary of the Columbine shooting and the 20th anniversary of the Thurston shooting in Eugene, Oregon. Which were both horrific but at least there was no organized effort to demonize the survivors or claim that the shootings didn't happen, since that was back in the days when conservatives just blamed it all on video games and rap music.

Yeah, that is new. I wonder if they finally realized that most of the world is watching the same violent movies, playing the same violent video games, and listening to the same violent music as most of the US. Heck, China has become one of the largest consumers of American movies. China and the rest of the world probably also has roughly the same percentage of entitled jagoffs as the US. Yet despite all this, they have nowhere near the same rate of gun violence and mass shootings as the US. Gee, I wonder why. :rolleyes:

Though I think I’m giving the Right too much credit for too much thinking, to use my mama’s words. From what I can tell, there really is no deeper zen to the Right. They are exactly what they present themselves; there is nothing below the surface.

The plain and simple truth is that They Do Not Care! It’s like that GK Chesterton quote I put in a previous thread. No matter how badly they screw the pooch, they have the money needed to buy their way out of trouble. If everything comes crashing down, they’ll abscond with their ill-gotten gains, go somewhere else, and start over, while everyone else has to clean up their mess.

Heck, what I just described, is pretty much Donald Trump’s entire career. Trump is a goddanged con artist and that’s what con artists do: when it looks like the mark is getting wise to the hustle or all the lies are about to come crashing down, the con artist takes their earnings and GTFO of town.

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicgeek (Post 1977074)
I don't know that the "Deep State" is necessarily aimed at the Jews. From what I can tell, the idea is that the completely incompetent, unintelligent, and universally-reviled-by-the-military-and-all-true-patriots black man who formerly occupied the White House somehow nevertheless managed to create a deeply entrenched array of government operatives that would remain in place once he left power, so that the aims of all right-thinking good conservatives, duly elected to power, would be hopelessly thwarted.

I wish I could believe you, but given that they use the term “Deep State” the way their forebears used “Secret Jewish Cabal” or “Zionist Occupied Government,” I have my doubts.

Though maybe I just don’t know any better, since my beliefs about massive conspiracies influencing our government, are less dogwhistles about religious and ethnic groups ruling the world, and more about insanely wealthy businessmen, flooding politics with cash, either directly or via a variety of shell organizations, effectively managing to pervert our democracy and make the government exist to due their bidding, rather than those common people. Or the tl;dr version, my version is more like the Koch Brothers and less Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.

Quote:

In fairness, I personally know a few left-leaning folks who are prone to spouting conspiracy theory BS online, but I've yet to see anything on the scale of Jones and his ilk.
I don’t doubt the existence of conspiracy theory BS on the Left. I’ve seen it myself. Said theories are irritating, especially the NFBSKing antivaxxers, but the difference is that much of the Leftwing conspiracy BS is confined to the outer fringes. There’s a difference between BS that has a considerable amount of funding and support by the so-called mainstream party (the GOP), making it so that said BS has a pretty good shot at being legislated and thus, affecting things on a national/global level, and BS spread around by a handful of people who have little, if any, actual political power.

crocoduck_hunter 22 April 2018 04:20 PM

The big distinction is that the Left has never openly embraces a conspiracy theory the way the right has: you get anti-vaxxers and 9/11 truthers, sure, but other lefties consider them nuts and both conspiracy theories also resonated with right-wingers. It's not like climate change denial or the Birther movement where the conspiracy theories became a core part of conservative ideology.

Mouse 23 April 2018 03:58 AM

It’s similar to what I said in my post. Leftwing BS is mostly confined to the outer fringes; generally, the Democratic Party barely acknowledges their views, much less agree with them.

But as you pointed out, Rightwing conspiracies have become part of the GOP platform and have a really scary shot at being made into policy and law, thus affecting things on a national and global level.

Blatherskite 25 April 2018 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse (Post 1977113)
Yeah, that is new. I wonder if they finally realized that most of the world is watching the same violent movies, playing the same violent video games, and listening to the same violent music as most of the US.

Not only that, but the extreme right is getting younger. They have grown up listening to violent music, watching violent movies and playing violent games, and it was just part of the background to their adolescence. It seems silly to the modern far-right to call such things dangerous in the same way it seemed silly for their parents to call certain things in their own youth dangerous.

There are also those who used to believe such things were dangerous until they had children of their own who dabbled in the devil's arts but turned out just as right wing as their parents wanted them to be. They realised they had to draw a line between their traditional sense of morality and their politic views in order to appeal to the next generation and they favoured political allegiances over righteous hand-wringing

E. Q. Taft 26 April 2018 12:18 AM

It wouldn't be so bad if it were just Alex Jones ranting on television and radio (although I think it's still a form of slander, if he's saying genuine victims and their relations were "crisis actors") -- it's the followers who then go and harass those people personally. Whether you can make Alex Jones somehow liable for that, I don't know; it depends on whether he's actually inciting them or not. But if anyone needs to go to the deepest, hottest part of hell, it's those NFBSKholes.

Steve 26 April 2018 02:07 AM

The guy's a scumbag, but I don't see why he should lose a lawsuit here. Freedom of speech allows for offensive stupidity. (Well, OK, if you say "Gas the Jews" in the birthplace of freedom of speech you have to cough up some pounds, but whatever. The royal baby looks great.)

crocoduck_hunter 26 April 2018 02:26 AM

He deserves to lose because his statements were falsehoods that he knew to be untrue and were made with the express purpose of causing harm.

Steve 26 April 2018 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter (Post 1977380)
He deserves to lose because his statements were falsehoods that he knew to be untrue and were made with the express purpose of causing harm.

Do you mean that's law? Or just your feeling about what the law should be?

crocoduck_hunter 26 April 2018 03:16 AM

As far as I know, that is the standard for proving slander in US courts.

Sue 26 April 2018 03:01 PM

My understanding is that you are free to say whatever you want but you can (and should) have to pay damages if someone is harmed because of what you have said. I suspect that bar would be even lower when it can be proven that you knew, or should have known, that what you have been saying is a heaping pile of manure.

DawnStorm 26 April 2018 06:39 PM

Don't know if this SCOTUS case is still the standard or not.

GenYus234 26 April 2018 06:50 PM

IMS, it is still the standard when a public official acting in their official capacity is the purported victim of defamation. None of the targets of Jones' diatribe were public officials acting as public officials so it wouldn't apply.


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