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-   -   Donald Trump tried to show you he’s sane and stable. His week became a running fiasco (

Sue 13 January 2018 04:33 PM

Donald Trump tried to show you he’s sane and stable. His week became a running fiasco
On Tuesday — does anyone remember Tuesday? — Donald Trump tried to demonstrate that he is sane and stable. An explosive new book had called into question his mental fitness, so the president had a showman’s brainwave. He would throw open the doors to a private meeting on immigration, letting television cameras capture him in command, at length, at his familiar spot at the centre of a boardroom table.

The plan didn’t go perfectly. Trump was vague and contradictory. He did not seem to understand policy terminology, much less policy itself. But he was involved and subdued, and if it seemed that the country was being run by an ignoramus, it did not seem obvious, in those 55 minutes at least, that it was being run by someone unhinged. He got the usual praise from television pundits eager to find something nice to say.

Then came Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

crocoduck_hunter 13 January 2018 09:52 PM

Trump's ability to come up with new and exciting ways to make himself look even less competent at his job is impressive.

Mouse 14 January 2018 01:37 AM

Every week of his presidency has been a running fiasco. Even George W. Bush could keep it together for a couple of weeks.

Esprise Me 14 January 2018 05:44 AM

I can't tell if my inability to feel anything over the sh*thole remark is just due to outrage fatigue or not thinking it's as bad as everyone else seems to. It's hard to maintain perspective at this point.

crocoduck_hunter 14 January 2018 06:24 AM

The big thing I took away from that remark was something Rachel Maddow said: in the US, we're going to remember it for maybe two weeks before he does something outrageous enough to get it out of the public consciousness. But in the African Union and Caribbean countries, it's going to get remembered for years after Trump is out of office, and when we go to one of those countries because there's some project we want or need their help on, they're going to hold it against us.

musicgeek 14 January 2018 12:02 PM

I'm annoyed that much of the controversy/outrage now seems to be over the "vulgar language" - the language is not the point; it's the dismissive prejudices behind the language, and their impact on public policy that are the real problem.

Lainie 14 January 2018 01:56 PM

Much of that is deliberate deflection, just like the "locker room talk" nonsense.

dfresh 14 January 2018 02:32 PM

The country is throwing away decades of good will in a very short time. I keep thinking about the long term impacts of what is going on: the US global image and self-image. The smart people who are leaving government service, or not going in, who will NOT be in senior positions in a decade or two. The judges who WILL still be in place in a few decades. The way the Republican party seems to be willing to do whatever it takes to win, so the Democrats will end up doing the same, and just toss the idea of what is proper, and tradition, and all, and that the REAL goal is to beat the other party, not to do what is right for the country. The doubling down on making the rich richer at the expense of us who are NOT in the top 10%. I wonder how hard it is to learn Australian.

Richard W 14 January 2018 02:45 PM


Originally Posted by dfresh (Post 1969155)
I wonder how hard it is to learn Australian.

Well to help you start, they call the kitchen surface or counter a "bench"...

dfresh 14 January 2018 02:49 PM

Thank you Richard. At this rate, I will be ready to go in a week!

Psihala 14 January 2018 05:24 PM


Originally Posted by Lainie (Post 1969149)
Much of that is deliberate deflection, just like the "locker room talk" nonsense.

Faux News apparently dismissed the Sh****le comment as "bar room talk".

(*Well, I guess that makes it all okay, then! :rolleyes: )

Sue 14 January 2018 05:50 PM


Originally Posted by Psihala (Post 1969173)
Faux News apparently dismissed the Sh****le comment as "bar room talk".

(*Well, I guess that makes it all okay, then! :rolleyes: )

Wait, so they aren't denying he said it? They must get whiplash between their going back and forth between "lies, all lies" and their "yeah ok he said it but it's much ado about nothing".

erwins 14 January 2018 05:56 PM

There is so much wrong with that remark. Like, layers of wrongness. (ETA: I mean the original remark).

Sue 14 January 2018 06:02 PM


Originally Posted by erwins (Post 1969179)
There is so much wrong with that remark. Like, layers of wrongness.

I think what I find most appalling is that they don't seem to see anything wrong with "bar room talk" in the context of serious discussions among politicians whose decisions can affect countless lives. They have no expectation that the president should have any gravitas, dignity, compassion or ability to know how to behave like, you know, a president.

erwins 14 January 2018 06:08 PM

Sorry, my ETA was too late. Of course there's also something wrong with the bar room talk remark, as well.

Psihala 14 January 2018 06:18 PM

Forgot to post a link:

Fox News Defends Trump’s ‘Shithole’ Comments As Just The Way Normal People Talk


“If it’s true, this is how the forgotten men and women in America talk at the bar,” Watters said. “This is how Trump relates to people. If you’re at a bar, and you’re from Wisconsin, and you’re thinking, ‘They’re bringing in a bunch of Haiti people, or El Salvadorians, or people from Niger.’ This is how some people talk.”

UEL 14 January 2018 06:27 PM

For the average American, the notion of "bar room talk" is less concerning if it is not done from a point of view of an official capacity. Some person using that language in a custody hearing, or business negotiation, or as a customer service representative for a company would be entirely out of line. Sitting in their living room, I would be less bothered. It is still a wrong attitude to have, but I would be less bothered.

But the President, in an official capacity, it outright wrong. Almost everyone agrees. But even in a "bar room" capacity, it is still outright wrong. At no time does the President stop being the face of the American people.

I mean, there are teachers being fired for having pictures on Facebook of them drinking alcohol or talking about their vacation to an exotic destination and having pictures of themselves in bathing suits. And the same people that support those firings are willing to accept the President using racist language in an official capacity.

The US is going downhill fast and increasing velocity.

RichardM 14 January 2018 06:43 PM


Originally Posted by dfresh (Post 1969155)
The country is throwing away decades of good will in a very short time.

No, donald trump is throwing this away. He is receiving support from a minority of the country.

musicgeek 14 January 2018 06:44 PM

I actually used the word "sh*thole" in a sermon last night. I warned the congregation first and apologized in advance, and the pastor approved. I couldn't not do it, given the gospel reading for the day.

erwins 14 January 2018 06:58 PM

I didn't have time to elaborate earlier, but here is what is wrong with his sh**hole remark, from my perspective.

First and foremost, it is enormously racist. He was talking about people from those countries, not about the countries, conditions in them, or having to go visit the countries. It is not coincidental that the vulgar imagery involved ties into racist stereotypes involving filth, lack of hygiene, and even uglier associations with skin color. And to make it absolutely crystal clear that it was a stunningly racist remark, he contrasted the people of color from those countries with people "from countries like Norway" -- probably the most stereotypically white country. There is absolutely no possible non-racist explanation or excuse for his comment. And it was truly ugly.

Second, and much lesser, but still importantly, the idea that people from poor, war-torn, or crime-ridden countries are not desirable immigrants, and cause a drain on our resources is (besides the racism) just wrong. Taking in immigrants from such countries has the double benefit of both being the right thing to do, and also benefitting our economy -- not causing a drain on our resources.

And finally, and of least importance, the policy and reality based ignorance that, at this moment, we could likely attract the equivalent number of immigrants from places like Norway. On this point, I confess I don't know the numbers, so maybe it's possible because our legal immigration numbers are kept very low. But my first thought about this part of the remark was, "why don't we have more immigrants from Norway? What are you going to do, kidnap them?" I mean, even the people who most agree with Trump probably don't want to come here.

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