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-   -   KKK and Synagogue Foil Anti-Muslim Plot (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=86029)

Little Pink Pill 21 June 2013 12:08 AM

KKK and Synagogue Foil Anti-Muslim Plot
 
Two American men have been charged in trying to create a radiation weapon to kill Muslim targets. They approached both a synagogue and the KKK for funding, and both turned them in.

http://www.denverpost.com/digitalfir...two-men-foiled

Alarm 21 June 2013 01:25 PM

What a short, unenelightening article. :confused:

A Turtle Named Mack 21 June 2013 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alarm (Post 1746295)
What a short, unenelightening article. :confused:

You need to give it a chance to load. There are 20-30 paragraphs, albeit the choppy ones that news articles seem to use so much nowadays.

Of course, the headline hits the main interest of the story - wow, how loony do you have to be that the KKK turns you in as a dangerous nutcase!?!?!

I am wondering what sort of an x-ray weapon he could have had in mind. Relatively small devices (smaller than a breadbox) can contain enough radioactive materials to shine enough x-rays to allow viewing one's bones. I know because my grandfather, a physics teacher in HS, had one and allowed all the kids to use it to view their foot bones to demonstrate x-rays. It was almost certainly a much larger dose than would be acceptable nowadays, but it was nowhere near a lethal dose. I am not aware of any reasonably compact way to generate x-rays than by radioactive materials, and you may as well just poison someone with those if you have them.

Lainie 21 June 2013 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack (Post 1746306)
Of course, the headline hits the main interest of the story - wow, how loony do you have to be that the KKK turns you in as a dangerous nutcase!?!?!

Good question, but there are other reasons a KKK group might turn in someone like that -- self-preservation, for one.

A Turtle Named Mack 21 June 2013 02:20 PM

It may have seemed so over-the-top that they concluded it was a set-up, that the guy was a fed or something.

Alchemy 21 June 2013 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack (Post 1746306)
I am wondering what sort of an x-ray weapon he could have had in mind. Relatively small devices (smaller than a breadbox) can contain enough radioactive materials to shine enough x-rays to allow viewing one's bones.

X-ray generating devices use high voltage to accelerate electrons, smack them into a metal target, and provoke excitation of certain types of electrons in the target. When these electrons relax to their original state, they release photons in the x-ray regime.

An x-ray source is really just a bunch of metal and electrical equipment, and it produces no radiation when powered down, because it doesn't actually contain any radioactive material. All the radiation is coming from electronic transitions and none of the nuclei in the x-ray source are ever changed. (Unlike, say, an alpha or beta source for radiotheraphy, which will contain radioisotopes.)

Little Pink Pill 21 June 2013 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alchemy (Post 1746331)
X-ray generating devices use high voltage to accelerate electrons, smack them into a metal target, and provoke excitation of certain types of electrons in the target.

Can we still call it a Death Ray Gun? Because I really, really wanted to call it a Death Ray Gun. "The KKK and a Rabbi Save the World from a Death Ray Gun" is like the best/worst science fiction idea ever.

Ryda Wong, EBfCo. 21 June 2013 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill (Post 1746343)
Can we still call it a Death Ray Gun?

It's a FREEZE RAY, LPP. Not a death ray or an ice ray.....

chillas 21 June 2013 03:44 PM

That's SO Johnny Snow...

As far as the KKK going to authorities, I wonder if they thought the whole thing was so ridiculous that it was a set up?

Alarm 21 June 2013 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack (Post 1746306)
You need to give it a chance to load. There are 20-30 paragraphs, albeit the choppy ones that news articles seem to use so much nowadays.

Maybe it's because of my work browser, but it's saying it finished loading and all I get is three short paragraphs...

:confused:

I wanna see what everyone sees!

A Turtle Named Mack 21 June 2013 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alchemy (Post 1746331)
X-ray generating devices use high voltage to accelerate electrons, smack them into a metal target, and provoke excitation of certain types of electrons in the target. When these electrons relax to their original state, they release photons in the x-ray regime.

An x-ray source is really just a bunch of metal and electrical equipment, and it produces no radiation when powered down, because it doesn't actually contain any radioactive material. All the radiation is coming from electronic transitions and none of the nuclei in the x-ray source are ever changed. (Unlike, say, an alpha or beta source for radiotheraphy, which will contain radioisotopes.)

Obviously I have not kept up with tech developments in this area. I am guessing I am at least 30-40 years behind on this, although I can remember as recently as 10-20 years ago a problem with old x-ray machines being dismantled for recyclables by poor people in Latin America and the people being badly exposed to radiation from taking apart the protective housing.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill (Post 1746343)
Can we still call it a Death Ray Gun? Because I really, really wanted to call it a Death Ray Gun. "The KKK and a Rabbi Save the World from a Death Ray Gun" is like the best/worst science fiction idea ever.

Sure, call it a death ray gun if you like - that's what it was, intended to be, no?

Pudding Crawl 21 June 2013 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Turtle Named Mack (Post 1746358)
I am guessing I am at least 30-40 years behind on this, although I can remember as recently as 10-20 years ago a problem with old x-ray machines being dismantled for recyclables by poor people in Latin America and the people being badly exposed to radiation from taking apart the protective housing.

If you're thinking of the Goi‚nia incident specifically, that was a radiotherapy unit, containing a radioactive source, rather than just an X-ray machine.

Nick Theodorakis 21 June 2013 07:46 PM

When I saw the thread title at first I thought that the KKK and a synagogue teamed up to foil a plot, which would have been strange.

Nick

Little Pink Pill 21 June 2013 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryda Wong, EBfCo. (Post 1746349)
It's a FREEZE RAY, LPP. Not a death ray or an ice ray.....

Clearly I can't keep my futuristic science fiction super gadget war gear straight. :D

Thanks ATNM. ;)

Alarm, I couldn't find another article with all the info, so I sent it to you in a PM.

Ryda Wong, EBfCo. 21 June 2013 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Pink Pill (Post 1746461)
Clearly I can't keep my futuristic science fiction super gadget war gear straight. :D

We're all just lucky that the phrase "death ray" isn't used very often. If it were, I'd have the Dr. Horrible soundtrack in my head ALL THE FREAKING TIME.

GenYus234 21 June 2013 08:12 PM

Why do you say that like it's a bad thing?

A Turtle Named Mack 21 June 2013 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudding Crawl (Post 1746370)
If you're thinking of the Goi‚nia incident specifically, that was a radiotherapy unit, containing a radioactive source, rather than just an X-ray machine.

I had thought there were multiple x-ray sources dismantled, but that's 25 years ago, and perhaps the articles' wording raised the specter of multiple units involved.

Would such a method of generating x-rays be used in modern equipment? It seems much safer if you can just use a high-voltage x-ray generator w/ no radioactive materials involved to do so, whether for imaging or radiotherapy. OTOH, it might be cheaper and in a way more reliable (no dependence on reliable electricity) in undeveloped areas to use radioactive materials, despite the risks.

Nick Theodorakis 21 June 2013 08:37 PM

The Cobalt 60-containing machines were (and are) used as radiation therapy, not for imaging. X-ray machines use a CRT to generate X-rays by accelerating electrons on to a metal target. Co60 makes photons of a little over 1 million eV, whereas X-rays used in imaging are 10-100 keV.

Nick

A Turtle Named Mack 21 June 2013 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Theodorakis (Post 1746473)
The Cobalt 60-containing machines were (and are) used as radiation therapy, not for imaging. X-ray machines use a CRT to generate X-rays by accelerating electrons on to a metal target. Co60 makes photons of a little over 1 million eV, whereas X-rays used in imaging are 10-100 keV.

Nick

Are cathode-ray tubes capable of being juiced up to the million eV level, or do they run into limitations based on the electron binding energy around the target atoms?

Ryda Wong, EBfCo. 21 June 2013 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenYus234 (Post 1746463)
Why do you say that like it's a bad thing?

Because singing Whedon musicals loudly is frowned upon at work. And at the grocery store. And even at Walmart.

And if you can't sing it loudly, it becomes painful.


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