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-   -   Hawaii volcano erupts; county issues evacuation orders (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=96646)

crocoduck_hunter 04 May 2018 05:50 AM

Hawaii volcano erupts; county issues evacuation orders
 
https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/to...zwd?li=BBnb7Kz

Quote:

HONOLULU (AP) Hawaii's Kilauea volcano is releasing red lava into a residential subdivision, prompting the county to order mandatory evacuations.

Hawaii County spokeswoman Janet Snyder said Thursday red lava emerged on Mohala Street in the Leilani Estates subdivision. The county is ordering evacuations for homes from Luana Street to Pohohiki Road.
Don't know how many Snopesters are on the Big Island, but stay safe.

erwins 04 May 2018 02:54 PM

"Volcano officials"??

thorny locust 04 May 2018 03:24 PM

They seem to be pretty well prepared.

I suppose it might have been better preparation not to have built there in the first place; but I don't know whether there's enough of Hawaii in general that's not at risk of eruptions to build on. The whole state's basically a string of volcanoes, isn't it, though not all currently active? or am I just expressing geographical ignorance?

In any case: yes, everybody, stay safe! And I hope people don't lose their homes.

Seaboe Muffinchucker 04 May 2018 03:25 PM

I was wondering why they were allowed to build close to the volcano, but then I saw that this is about 10 miles away. I can see how people would think 10 miles is safe. However, I hope they have volcano insurance, because sure as shooting, someone is going to lose everything.

Seaboe

Beachlife! 04 May 2018 04:48 PM

I can't speak for Hawaii, but where my daughter lives, in Quito, Ecuador, they are surrounded by volcanoes in various stages of activity. If they were to move out the affected area the city and most of the populated parts of the country would have to be vacated.

Each student in my daughter's school has a volcano emergency kit that is kept in the classroom at all times. With the most recent close-call, Cotopaxi, there was a good chance the kids would been cut off from their families for days if the eruption happened during the school day.

crocoduck_hunter 04 May 2018 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorny locust (Post 1978088)
They seem to be pretty well prepared.

I suppose it might have been better preparation not to have built there in the first place; but I don't know whether there's enough of Hawaii in general that's not at risk of eruptions to build on. The whole state's basically a string of volcanoes, isn't it, though not all currently active? or am I just expressing geographical ignorance?

My understanding is that all of the Hawaiian Islands are volcanic in origin, but the Big Island is the only one that still has active volcanoes.

Kermor 04 May 2018 06:42 PM

Well, Naples is built near Mount Vesuvius. You might think that after Pompeii and Herculanum nobody would want to build there, but there you go. "Vedi Napoli e Morire", as they say.

Lainie 04 May 2018 06:51 PM

Then there's the Seattle-Tacoma area. And Mount Shasta, in California.

erwins 04 May 2018 07:00 PM

Kilauea and Mt. Ranier are considered two of the most dangerous volcanoes in the US, based in part on how close they are to large populations. There's a town 20 miles from Ranier that could have around 40 minutes warning to get to safety from a fast-moving -- like 50 mph -- lahar (pyroclastic mud flow). Multiple cities in the area are built on top of past mudflows that buried river valleys under tens, or even hundreds, of feet of mud.

At least lava is slow-moving.

Until Mt. St. Helens erupted in 1980, people commonly referred to the volcanoes around here as dormant or extinct. Now many are labeled as "potentially active." The understanding of what's safe has changed a lot, too. After St. Helens, much more attention is being paid to potential lahars, and also the weakening of the flanks of the mountains from the sulfur gases inside, which can lead to collapses or blowouts.

Bobcat Warrior 04 May 2018 07:10 PM

Erwins:

Some forms of lava are extremely fast moving.

BW

crocoduck_hunter 04 May 2018 07:25 PM

If I remember my geology classes correctly, the hotter, more liquid lava is considered less dangerous because it doesn't typically lead to explosive eruptions like what happened with Mt St Helens.

Alarm 04 May 2018 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter (Post 1978120)
If I remember my geology classes correctly, the hotter, more liquid lava is considered less dangerous because it doesn't typically lead to explosive eruptions like what happened with Mt St Helens.

This site says some lava can go up to 60MPH but the problem is usually when the lava comes from unexpected fissures.

http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/how-fast-does-lava-flow
this other site has more details about Nyiarongo (the example I was referring too, about unexpected fissures):
Quote:

On the 10th of January, 1977, the crater wall holding the lava lake ruptured. (The exact reason this happened has not yet been well understood, and this is why Nyiragongo still needs to be studied, to predict if this can happen again.) Within 30 mins, the entire lava lake had drained, sending an estimated 3 to 5 million cubic meters of lava to the north, west, and south of Nyiragongo. These lava flows reached up to 100 km/hr, wiping out several of the surrounding villages and burning almost 300 people alive
http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/most-...ale-nyiragongo

Seaboe Muffinchucker 04 May 2018 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erwins (Post 1978114)
Mt. Ranier

The name is Rainier, like Prince Rainier of Monaco (but not pronounced the same).

Quote:

After St. Helens, much more attention is being paid to potential lahars, and also the weakening of the flanks of the mountains from the sulfur gases inside, which can lead to collapses or blowouts.
It all depends on where you live, and what they know about the specific volcano. In some places, they've long considered the danger of lahars to be greater than the danger of lava (including in the Pacific Northwest, where I was taught that those were a great danger clear back in 1970).

Seaboe

crocoduck_hunter 04 May 2018 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alarm (Post 1978122)
This site says some lava can go up to 60MPH but the problem is usually when the lava comes from unexpected fissures.

http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/how-fast-does-lava-flow
this other site has more details about Nyiarongo (the example I was referring too, about unexpected fissures):

http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/most-...ale-nyiragongo

True, and I don't want to trivialize the threat presented. The difference is that really hot, liquid lava allows gasses to escape more easily and thus tends to be at relatively low pressure compared to cooler volcanoes, which tend to have much more explosive and widely devastating eruptions- Mt St Helens or Krakatoa being two well known examples of what can result from that.

Lainie 04 May 2018 08:53 PM

IIRC, some areas Seattle-Tacoma areas formed by historical lahar flows are very densely developed -- I'm thinking Federal Way and the valley that part of Kent lies in.

erwins 04 May 2018 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker (Post 1978126)
It all depends on where you live, and what they know about the specific volcano. In some places, they've long considered the danger of lahars to be greater than the danger of lava (including in the Pacific Northwest, where I was taught that those were a great danger clear back in 1970).

Seaboe

I said more attention. I didn't say it was an unknown danger before. AIUI, volcanologists did not previously anticipate the kind of collapse and sideways blowout that St. Helens had. The same kind of weakening of the flanks is now recognized in other volcanoes, including Rainier.

Quote:

“It was a watershed event in volcanology in a lot of ways,” John Pallister, the lead for the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) Volcano Disaster Assistance Program told PBS NewsHour.

“It was when geologists after the eruption worldwide started recognizing these giant debris avalanches, these giant landslides that are now recognized as a major hazard at volcanoes all around the world, ” Pallister said.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...ount-st-helens

St. Helens had the largest debris avalanche in recorded history.

https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes...o_hist_99.html

thorny locust 04 May 2018 10:15 PM

People do tend to determinedly live in vulnerable areas; including to the point of coming back to them and repeatedly rebuilding.

This is I'm sure partly because sometimes there doesn't seem to be anywhere better to live, or at least nowhere that isn't already claimed and/or vulnerable to something else.

But I suspect it's also partly that we got in the habit back when we were no good at predicting such dangers, not to mention often living in such fashions that getting out of the way of the occasional flood was less of a disruption; and now, when we've gotten somewhat better at predicting which areas are dangerous, the prediction is often still 'sometime in the next few hundred years' and most people don't think on those scales.

And there's also got to be a mix in there of the fact that many humans develop strong attractions to/with specific places; a phenomenon that has its advantages, but also some disadvantages.

erwins 04 May 2018 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alarm (Post 1978122)
This site says some lava can go up to 60MPH but the problem is usually when the lava comes from unexpected fissures.

http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/how-fast-does-lava-flow
this other site has more details about Nyiarongo (the example I was referring too, about unexpected fissures):

http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/most-...ale-nyiragongo

Typically, if lava is flowing toward a person, they can just walk away from it. Even faster moving lava can typically be outrun. https://geoetc.com/lava-flows-speed/, https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/vhp/lava_flows.html.

The Nyiarongo example is very atypical. Lava flow rate is affected by how much is flowing. So breaching a large lake of lava makes a difference. But that is not going to be a very common occurrence.

A pyroclastic flow typically moves much much faster than a typical lava flow. And a pyroclastic surge can move hundreds of miles per hour.

jimmy101_again 05 May 2018 12:07 AM

Mt St Hellens web page with live view of the Mt:
https://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanocams/msh/

A current image (this image might go away in a day or two):
https://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanoca...pg?=1525474518
The lump in the middle of the crater is the newly forming dome. Looks like it will be the high point of the mountain in another 50 years or so.

ganzfeld 05 May 2018 12:15 AM

Wow that's cool Jimmy. That was such a big event in my childhood even though we didn't live anywhere near there.


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