snopes.com

snopes.com (http://message.snopes.com/index.php)
-   Soapbox Derby (http://message.snopes.com/forumdisplay.php?f=43)
-   -   ICE sweeps nearly 100 7-Eleven stores in immigration probe (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=96359)

E. Q. Taft 10 January 2018 10:38 PM

ICE sweeps nearly 100 7-Eleven stores in immigration probe
 
Federal immigration agents targeted nearly 100 7-Eleven stores across the nation for audits and inspections Wednesday morning in one of the most sweeping illegal immigration probes taken against an employer under the Trump administration.

Twenty-one people were arrested on suspicion of being in the country illegally as U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents served inspection notices at convenience stores in 17 states, including California, and in the District of Columbia, officials said.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nation...110-story.html

crocoduck_hunter 11 January 2018 12:01 AM

Wow, that was clearly an excellent use of taxpayer money.

thorny locust 11 January 2018 04:06 AM

Maybe they ought to sweep the assorted Trump enterprises.

GenYus234 11 January 2018 07:59 PM

I can't prove it, but I would guess that "suspicion of being in the country illegally" too often consists of looking and/or sounding Hispanic and not having a SS card or US passport on your person.

crocoduck_hunter 11 January 2018 08:01 PM

Well, I doubt that they're looking for illegal Canadians.

E. Q. Taft 11 January 2018 08:50 PM

I do think any immigration crackdown ought to focus on businesses that knowingly hire undocumented workers -- and most particularly on any that commit labor abuses in the process; and on punishing the business owners and managers complicit in the hiring, rather than on just grabbing the workers themselves.

But that's assuming there needs to be a crackdown, of which I'm not convinced.

In this case, you have a company where the thousands of franchisees are the ones responsible for the hiring; I'm sure there are some that are sloppy (deliberately or not) in checking credentials, but the same could be said of any number of other small businesses. Unless there's strong reason to expect that 7-11's corporate management is somehow encouraging or knowingly allowing such hiring, then targeting a chain like this seems more like a publicity stunt.

WildaBeast 11 January 2018 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft (Post 1969022)
Unless there's strong reason to expect that 7-11's corporate management is somehow encouraging or knowingly allowing such hiring, then targeting a chain like this seems more like a publicity stunt.

When I first saw the headline I wondered why, specifically, they targeted 7-Eleven. Unless, as you say, there was some reason to believe their management was encouraging the hiring of undocumented immigrants, then the optics are that ICE was playing into the stereotype that convenience stores are run by immigrants.

crocoduck_hunter 11 January 2018 09:13 PM

Personally, I don't see the point in cracking down on illegal immigrants who haven't committed any other crimes in the first place. What's the point?

dfresh 12 January 2018 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildaBeast (Post 1969025)
When I first saw the headline I wondered why, specifically, they targeted 7-Eleven.

They were talking with a former ICE leader on NPR tonight, and it sounded like 7-Eleven had been in trouble for hiring people without papers several years ago and promised to do better, so this was sort of a check in to see how they were doing.

Thebobo 12 January 2018 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter (Post 1969027)
Personally, I don't see the point in cracking down on illegal immigrants who haven't committed any other crimes in the first place. What's the point?

Uhm...they are illegally here. That is the point. They are breaking the law with that alone.

thorny locust 12 January 2018 01:39 AM

Which would be all very well if there were actually a legal way for most people who want or need to come here to get into the country.

If people are going to go hungry or be subjected to violence where they are -- and going to have to watch their children going hungry and/or being beaten, raped, and/or murdered -- then those who can are going to go where the food and/or the safety are. Wouldn't you?

And, if they didn't, the USA would join a number of other countries in having a dropping population; which would cause its own problems. I'm actually in favor of the population coming down eventually -- but I want it to do so very slowly. Anything else causes huge labor problems, in a society remotely like the one we've got.

ganzfeld 12 January 2018 02:57 AM

It's just frightening to think that the last person who served me a Slurpee may have actually been gainfully employed in a country without permission to be there. It keeps me awake at night. The scariest thing is I wouldn't even know it even after I had drank the whole coldass drink. I could be having an ice cream headache and that man or woman would just be there working and earning a meagre wage. No change at all.

erwins 12 January 2018 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thebobo (Post 1969037)
Uhm...they are illegally here. That is the point. They are breaking the law with that alone.

(I am not an immigration lawyer, no one should take this as advice).

They don't have lawful status, and are subject to deportation, but the only crime associated with being an undocumented immigrant by itself is if the person entered the country illegally. That is a misdemeanor, and the crime is complete upon entry -- it's not an ongoing offense. If they don't have legal status because of overstaying a visa, meaning they entered legally, then there is no crime. Just a civil ground for immigration proceedings (which is an administrative process.)

ChasFink 12 January 2018 01:02 PM

The points that thorny locust and erwins make are the reasons why I get frustrated with the attitude I hear so often:"Well, they're breaking the law by being here and I believe in zero tolerance when it comes to breaking the law, etc., etc."

Even if it were a crime to be an undocumented immigrant, the point should be "recognizing the strength of our immigrant heritage, how do we best allow for people who want to move to America to do so?" (not "how do we keep as many people out as possible?") The laws have to change to reflect the answer to that question. Then we can argue about how to deal with "illegals".

By the way, I never bought the "taking jobs away from us" argument. Every 100 or 1000 or 1,000,000 new American residents are that many more people needing consumer goods and housing and services - and more people working to provide those things.

GenYus234 12 January 2018 01:45 PM

Yeah, but the immigrants are taking all the easy, high-paying jobs, nothing but the hard, dirty, and low-paying ones.

ChasFink 12 January 2018 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenYus234 (Post 1969048)
Yeah, but the immigrants are taking all the easy, high-paying jobs, nothing but the hard, dirty, and low-paying ones.

Yeah, dammit! I can only get a job at minimum at the Hot Dog on a Stick two towns over because all the immigrants from (as Mr. Trump calls them) $#!+hole countries have all the cushy professional video-game-playing jobs.

E. Q. Taft 12 January 2018 06:41 PM

I've been eating at Subway quite a lot recently (I get into ruts). The franchise I generally go to was closed early on Christmas eve. So I went to a different store that I suspected would be open, and was -- it's run by immigrants from...well, honestly I'm not sure where they're from. Somewhere in the Middle East I believe, but possibly not. Anyway, not only were they open till 8 PM on Christmas Eve, but until mid-afternoon on Christmas day. So, that holiday, I was most grateful for immigrants. :)

(On the downside, I don't know if it's connected to their place or origin or not, but they are extremely reluctant to use their air conditioner, so their store is generally uncomfortably warm, which is one reason I usually go to the other one.)

And sometimes might be better off with immigrants working our convenience store. A thoroughly American friend of mine was working in one once, when a customer with a heavy accident asked him, regarding the hot dogs, "Does this have picinit?" At least that's what it sounded like to my friend, who couldn't make sense of it after several repetitions, so he finally just said no, and the man made the purchase. It wasn't until later that he figured out that the probably-Muslim gentleman was asking, "Does this have [i]pig in it[i]?" -- which, not being an all-beef hot dog, it did. To this day my friend feels guilt -- "What if he goes to hell because of me?"

(Of course I know some people who would be smug at having tricked a dirty Muslim into eating pork. These people are assholes.)

GenYus234 12 January 2018 08:22 PM

IANAI, but AIUI, halal is more about doing your best to eat and drink according the dietary laws, not about accidental breakings of the law:

Quote:

But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, or transgressing due limits; then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful. (Qur'an 2:173)
https://www.al-islam.org/a-code-of-p...ating-drinking
Quote:

199. Question: We are unaware of the ingredients of food sold in shops in Western countries: it might be free from those ingredients that are forbidden to us or it might contain them. Are we allowed to eat such items without looking into their ingredients, or inquiring about them? Or is that not allowed to us?

Answer: It is permissible [to eat such food] as long as it is not known that it contains meat, fat, and their derivatives that are forbidden to us.
ETA: Also, it is permissible to eat anything haram if necessary (for example, to prevent starvation). In my quite limited understanding, the Islamic dietary laws are, "you shouldn't eat these things, but don't be an idiot about it".

NobleHunter 12 January 2018 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E. Q. Taft (Post 1969068)
I've been eating at Subway quite a lot recently (I get into ruts). The franchise I generally go to was closed early on Christmas eve. So I went to a different store that I suspected would be open, and was -- it's run by immigrants from...well, honestly I'm not sure where they're from. Somewhere in the Middle East I believe, but possibly not. Anyway, not only were they open till 8 PM on Christmas Eve, but until mid-afternoon on Christmas day. So, that holiday, I was most grateful for immigrants. :)

(On the downside, I don't know if it's connected to their place or origin or not, but they are extremely reluctant to use their air conditioner, so their store is generally uncomfortably warm, which is one reason I usually go to the other one.)

And sometimes might be better off with immigrants working our convenience store. A thoroughly American friend of mine was working in one once, when a customer with a heavy accident asked him, regarding the hot dogs, "Does this have picinit?" At least that's what it sounded like to my friend, who couldn't make sense of it after several repetitions, so he finally just said no, and the man made the purchase.

I never feel quite as stupid as when I can't parse someone's accent or dialect. I speak English, I should be able to understand people who are speaking English.

mbravo 12 January 2018 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobleHunter (Post 1969083)
I never feel quite as stupid as when I can't parse someone's accent or dialect. I speak English, I should be able to understand people who are speaking English.

This. I also have the problem where my imagination "helpfully" suggests interpretations that make absolutely no sense to the context.


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.