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-   -   5 injured after firearms go off at gun shows (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=83981)

Il-Mari 20 January 2013 03:48 AM

5 injured after firearms go off at gun shows
 
Quote:

At least five people -- three in North Carolina, one in Indiana and one in Ohio -- were injured after weapons went off at gun shows Saturday, officials said, at a time when there's been renewed discussion about private gun sales at such shows.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/19/us/nor...ing/index.html

These tragedies could have been prevented if only more people had guns (source: The NRA).

- Il-Mari

snopes 20 January 2013 03:56 AM

I suspect injuries at gun shows are not a rare occurrence, but due to recent events they're now receiving more scrutiny and news coverage than they usually would.

crocoduck_hunter 20 January 2013 06:13 AM

If only there'd been an armed bystander nearby in each of these events. They could have shot the person and prevented anyone from getting hurt. :rolleyes:

Mateus 20 January 2013 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crocoduck_hunter (Post 1705220)
If only there'd been an armed bystander nearby in each of these events. They could have shot the person and prevented anyone from getting hurt. :rolleyes:

Luckily there wasn't a cascading wave of people trying to be a hero (as they preach over and over regarding the right to carry concealed weapons), resulting in a 34,603-way firefight. Yes that number is hyperbole; so shoot me.

Overall, a handful of accidental shootings occurring on a day involving thousands of weapons old and new being paraded about in crowded venues filled with amateurs is probably no more than should be expected.

hambubba 20 January 2013 06:11 PM

This was a result of sheer stupidity. You can't carry a loaded weapon into a gun show. The shotgun owner should've known that, it's posted in the rules and in Big Signs At The Door. The dealer should've checked the weapon first. And Mr. Stupid was loading his newly bought firearm outside the building.

This is why people need lessons. Our local gun show this weekend was swamped with folks. One of their rules is, if they find a loaded gun either from a customer or dealer, you are forever banned from their shows. They DO take it seriously.

It's the "Idiot Factor" that we need to deal with. And. with all due respect to Mr. Snopes, I doubt this is common. I need some stats to back that up, though.

Chloe 20 January 2013 06:12 PM

What would prevent you from bringing your own bullets and loading one there?

crocoduck_hunter 20 January 2013 06:38 PM

"Accidental"* shootings are what, the third leading cause of injury in the US?

Also, hambubba, there's a difference between "can't" and "shouldn't." You shouldn't carry a loaded firearm into a gun show, but apparently you certainly can because otherwise most of those shootings wouldn't have occurred.

*Scare quotes because shooting someone because you were too stupid to follow even the most rudimentary portions of firearm safety means that the shooting wasn't an accident.

snopes 20 January 2013 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hambubba (Post 1705314)
And. with all due respect to Mr. Snopes, I doubt this is common.

I didn't say it was "common"; I said I suspect it is "not a rare occurrence." That is, it's the type of thing that probably occurs from time to time (maybe a few times a year) without making the national news, and the only reason these incidents made the national news is because they all occurred within a brief span of time shortly after a major shooting incident. Had they taken place spanned over a longer period of time, and not following on the heels of a school massacre, I doubt they'd be much more than local news.

ganzfeld 20 January 2013 10:19 PM

It sounds to me like having thousands of 'unloaded' guns could be part of the problem.

Also, it's funny that safety is kept by supposedly ensuring that all the guns are supposedly unloaded and some of the very same people insist that outside of gun shows the laws of the universe somehow work in reverse and safety is ensured by allowing all the guns to be loaded.

From the OP:
Quote:

However, when the state fair is held in October, it is illegal to bring a loaded gun to the fairground because of the large crowds, authorities said.
They're taking away our guns!

ETA - When I learned weapon safety, like others on this board who have, the first thing I learned was that every weapon is loaded. But it wasn't until years later that I learned one of the most important rules: There's always some fool who thinks the rules don't apply to him or his gun. ("But I checked the chamber!" Uh-huh.)

crescent 21 January 2013 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganzfeld (Post 1705387)
....one of the most important rules: There's always some fool who thinks the rules don't apply to him or his gun. ("But I checked the chamber!" Uh-huh.)

Maybe this has been posted elsewhere, but some of the scenes in this video seem to describe that:

Gun FAILS: Second Amendment Rights Gone Wrong

Zorro 21 January 2013 12:40 AM

Ganz, I, too, was taught that every gun is a loaded gun, it doesn't matter if someone tells you it's not loaded; you still regard it as loaded.

me, no really 21 January 2013 12:46 AM

I have taught that to my children, even though here it is likely that they could go through their entire lives only ever seeing a gun in a holster being worn by a police officer. You just never know and I want them to be safe if they ever do come across one somewhere.

hambubba 21 January 2013 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chloe (Post 1705315)
What would prevent you from bringing your own bullets and loading one there?

Ammunition is sold at the shows, as well. What's to stop you? Thousands of people, if they see you doing it. You could load it and not be caught, I suppose.

Chloe 21 January 2013 02:08 PM

Does it matter if they see you doing it? You have a loaded gun and they don't. I'm sure you could get off a few shots before they shoot you.

GenYus234 21 January 2013 02:10 PM

Easier than that. Just bring a extra magazine for the gun. At the checkpoint you show the unloaded gun and one empty magazine. Then you just pop in the loaded magazine, work the action and it is loaded.

ETA: Most gun shows I've been to put a zip tie on the gun to keep it unloadable, so you'd have to cut that first. If you have a pair if wire cutters, that wouldn't take long.

ETA2: I've always assumed that the unloaded gun rule is to prevent accidents, not to stop someone intending a massacre.

Swordmaster 21 January 2013 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crescent (Post 1705429)
Maybe this has been posted elsewhere, but some of the scenes in this video seem to describe that:

Gun FAILS: Second Amendment Rights Gone Wrong

That was frightening.

ganzfeld 21 January 2013 02:42 PM

Well, again, "thousands of people would see you loading it" seems to go against everything I was taught (and learned from some somewhat frightening and sometimes painful experiences). The idea that you can keep every weapon unloaded and therefore safe is just wrong - no matter how you suppose that might be done. In my opinion, of course.

E. Q. Taft 21 January 2013 04:19 PM

I am glad none of the shootings were fatal. (If only because then I would feel much more guilty about my grim sense of amusement.)

According to Rachel Maddow, these events took place on "Gun Appreciation Day," which increases the irony.

Cobalt Indigo 21 January 2013 04:42 PM

Forgive me if I get the terminology wrong, but at the gun show I went to last year with my husband (also in NC) when they checked the guns at the door, they secured them "open" with a zip-tie, and when you left and were out of the crowd they'd take the zip-tie off and you went to your car then. So while you're in the show you're gun isn't loaded and not able to become loaded, unless you cut off the zip-tie, but they made tight enough that you'd have to struggle a little to cut it off would surely be seen by someone doing it.

crocoduck_hunter 21 January 2013 05:51 PM

Not really. A good set of wire cutters will go through a zip tie in less time that it takes to say it.


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