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-   -   It's illegal to sell a computer without software (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=84422)

Skeptic 23 February 2013 09:31 PM

It's illegal to sell a computer without software
 
Twice in the last year, I have been told by salespeople in computer shops that "it is illegal for them to sell a computer without software" (in reference to the operating system).

I use Linux, and it is trivially easy to load it myself so I'm not going to pay someone to do it. But nor am I going to pay for a copy of Windows that will by left unused.

Is there any basis in fact for this. I can't see how it could either make sense, or how could it be enforced. Note that I am not talking about re-selling a computer with programs on it, but rather a naked PC with nothing but its own start up code.

snopes 23 February 2013 09:54 PM

It is true that many OEMs have bundling agreements with Microsoft to sell their computers with Windows installed on them, and that computer retailers therefore cannot simply wipe the operating system off such PCs prior to selling them.

If you're talking about a computer shop that builds its own computers from component parts, however, then there's no reason why they cannot sell PCs without operating systems installed on them.

diddy 23 February 2013 09:56 PM

Given that one can purchase every individual component of a PC without an OS, I can't see how this can possibly be legal. I can see why such a thing doesn't happen much (most PC's are sold with Windows anyhow) since PC's without an OS aren't much cheaper than one with an OS, bit I can't see how they could enforce this. You can't force somebody to buy an OS though.

ETA: I am not talking about OEM's here...

Kallah 23 February 2013 11:47 PM

What would constitute "a computer" for the law, anyway? What if I purchase a motherboard, processor, memory, video card, power supply and some SATA cables ... but no hard drive? It's not a terribly unlikely scenario, as hard drives can easily outlast just about everything else in your case, other than the power supply. What are they going to instal the mandatory OS on?

snopes 23 February 2013 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diddy (Post 1716003)
Given that one can purchase every individual component of a PC without an OS, I can't see how this can possibly be legal.

Because 'all the individual components that make up X' is not the same thing as X.

Does the fact that you can buy every component of a meal at a grocery store mean that the law can't require restaurants to follow regulations that don't also apply to grocers?

Hero_Mike 24 February 2013 01:11 AM

Lots of computer stores will sell a fully-assembled and tested computer without an OS. Just ask them. But you should expect to pay some amount of money for them to assemble and test it, and you should expect that they may have installed an OS to do the testing, then removed it. Believe me, I've done this twice now after the disaster which was assembling the pieces from different sources and not knowing which part is defective.

It's no law - it's exactly how snopes describes it.

RealityChuck 24 February 2013 01:33 AM

For years, we bought computers and installed an operating system in house.

Up until a few years ago, they all came with an open source OS disk. We ended up with hundreds of these. Dell would not sell a bare metal computer without some form of OS bundled with it.

Now, we buy them with a Windows license that we use when we take them out of service.

FullMetal 24 February 2013 02:10 AM

Dell sells "N series" workstations, (we use both precision 3600s and optiplex 790/7010s) which come with no os. So it's highly unlikely that its illegal. That being said, yes, most oems have an agreement with Microsoft that they will sell with windows. Now, I understand the reasoning behind not wanting to sell a computer with no operating system, as you have no way of knowing the competency of the person you're selling it Too, who could theoretically demand a refund for the non functioning computer that was sold without an os...

erwins 24 February 2013 03:02 AM

I agree with snopes also. It would very likely be true at a major retailer like Best Buy, or an OEM that the sales person would more accurately say that they are bound by contract not to sell a computer without a (Windows) operating system on it. Maybe to some sales people being told that doing x would put them in breach of contract and liable for being sued is roughly equivalent in their minds to "it would be breaking the law."

Alchemy 24 February 2013 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kallah (Post 1716025)
What would constitute "a computer" for the law, anyway?

Most PC parts retailers carry the "System Builders" version of Microsoft operating systems, which has a significant discount from the retail version of the OS. Usually you are not allowed to buy it unless you're also buying a critical component of a PC at the same time, such as a CPU or motherboard.

Of course there's no practical way to ensure any particular copy of an OS is installed on a newly-built PC containing any particular component.

ETA: And to be clear, it's not a law which designates this, but the particular terms of a contract between Microsoft and a PC retailer or a PC parts retailer, where Microsoft sells its OS at some particular discount in exchange for controlling some aspects of what the retailer can and cannot sell.

Drakkon 24 February 2013 04:44 AM

I doubt many of your big stores will sell you a pc with no OS. But by no means is it against the law to sell a computer with out an OS. If you want an OS free unit you are probably best off purchasing it through a small computer shop, or ordering the parts and putting it together yourself.

jimmy101_again 24 February 2013 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakkon (Post 1716119)
I doubt many of your big stores will sell you a pc with no OS. But by no means is it against the law to sell a computer with out an OS. If you want an OS free unit you are probably best off purchasing it through a small computer shop, or ordering the parts and putting it together yourself.

Or buying a complete computer with a separate (second) hard disk and installing the second disk as the boot disk, then wiping the original boot disk. Win-win situation, you know the machine functions and you get a second hard disk (and the joy of wiping the installed OS bloatware out of existence). :)

diddy 24 February 2013 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snopes (Post 1716029)
Because 'all the individual components that make up X' is not the same thing as X.

I was more going with what Kallah was saying. What exactly would constitute a computer for such a law to take effect? If you could buy every single component to build a computer in one transaction without an OS. Is that a computer? Or does it have to be pre-assembled? What if it didn't come with a hard drive?

Lets just assume such a law exists - How are they going to enforce it on places that just sell parts and isn't bound by any contract by anybody?

I agree with what erwins is saying. A sales guy on the floor is confusing "illegal" with "breach of OEM contract" which is very much a real thing. I of course was excluding OEM's since I wanted to avoid talking about contracts since the OP was talking about a law (One that I assure you does not exist)

erwins 24 February 2013 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy101_again (Post 1716127)
Or buying a complete computer with a separate (second) hard disk and installing the second disk as the boot disk, then wiping the original boot disk. Win-win situation, you know the machine functions and you get a second hard disk (and the joy of wiping the installed OS bloatware out of existence). :)

Except that you just paid for an operating system that you are going to erase. Usually when people are inquiring about getting a computer with no OS, it's because they'd like to get a discount off the retail price because they don't need the Windows license that is bundled with it.

Sjö 24 February 2013 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diddy (Post 1716130)
What exactly would constitute a computer for such a law to take effect? If you could buy every single component to build a computer in one transaction without an OS. Is that a computer? Or does it have to be pre-assembled? What if it didn't come with a hard drive?

Related to the question, but not answering it exactly: In the 90's I worked at an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) that built computers and also sold components. if I recall correctly, we understood our contract with Microsoft that we could only sell the OEM version of Windows with a new computer or with specific components, namely a motherboard or a hard drive.

It can sometimes be a hassle selling computers without an OS. We were very careful to explain that the hard drive was free of any OS, even DOS, and that they were on their own when they were installing whatever OS they used. If we didn't we'd get people calling in and asking "Where's the DOS?" and "How are you expecting me to be able to install Windows on my own?". Well, duh, DOS is an operating system and maybe you should have thought about that before you decided to save a few bucks by installing your pirated Windows.

snopes 24 February 2013 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diddy (Post 1716130)
What exactly would constitute a computer for such a law to take effect?

Anything that fit how such a law defined the term "computer" for the purposes of that law.

ganzfeld 24 February 2013 11:16 AM

The agreements with the OEMs are mutually beneficial. The OS gets sold and the hardware gets marked up more than what they have to pay for the OS license. Almost no consumers want a computer without an OS so there's no downside. I can't think of any reason consumer electronics stores would want to sell machines without OS licenses, even if they weren't under agreement.

Even though the software company doesn't get as much for the OS as they would selling it out of a box, the chances the consumer will buy more software and continue to buy updates for the new machine are very good.

jimmy101_again 24 February 2013 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erwins (Post 1716140)
Except that you just paid for an operating system that you are going to erase. Usually when people are inquiring about getting a computer with no OS, it's because they'd like to get a discount off the retail price because they don't need the Windows license that is bundled with it.

Good point, but does the OS actually add significantly to the cost? Or does the OS supplier figure they make money from bundled demos (like MS Office)? You can pick up a new laptop with Windows 8 on it for $300, so Microsoft can't be charging the laptop maker much for the OEM OS.

And, any PC sold that doesn't run a Windows OS is unlikely to ever need any other Microsoft software (like Office). So it is to Microsoft's advantage to give the OS away for free.

I've seen non-upgrade versions of Windows 8 Pro for as little as $40 or as much as $400. Figure the actual cost to Microsoft is about $0.50 (:fish:).

Edit: and the knowledge that the hardware plays well together might justify the minimal increase in cost that the soon-to-be-erased OS entails.

ganzfeld 25 February 2013 12:48 AM

Exactly, and how many consumers are willing to get 15 to 50 dollars knocked off the 600 to 1000 dollar price of a computer that's already packaged for the average consumer so that it has no OS? Basically, none. Those people don't buy those packages in the first place. (And that tiny tiny minority who do know it pays to get that OS cheaply because if they ever want it for that box, they'll have it.)

Hero_Mike 25 February 2013 05:24 AM

Here's a question - is it possible to purchase a laptop without an OS? I have seen "unbranded" or "house brand" laptops sold by companies like "Tiger Direct", but I haven't looked for a few years. Essentially, you can't "build" a laptop from scratch like a desktop - sure, you can select the value and complexity of components within the laptop but only from a narrow list.

I did think of a situation where it is advantageous to buy a computer without an OS. It's when you're replacing an existing computer and you still have a valid OS license, but a computer that won't run. About 15 years ago, we had a rash of computer failures where the motherboard and power supply would fail together. These were a bunch of store-built "white boxes" long past their one-year warranty. A new computer was more economical than merely replacing the components on the old one, since 2 or 3 years later you got more for the same money. So we recovered the files from the old hard-drive and had a much-improved PC, but it still used the same OS. This is back in the days where there was no "improvement" upon Windows 98 (Windows NT, Windows ME) until Windows 2000 became established after its first Service pack rolled out - at least 3 years, if not more, where Win 98 SE was the "best" thing available.

Wolf333 25 February 2013 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hero_Mike (Post 1716285)
Here's a question - is it possible to purchase a laptop without an OS? I have seen "unbranded" or "house brand" laptops sold by companies like "Tiger Direct", but I haven't looked for a few years. Essentially, you can't "build" a laptop from scratch like a desktop - sure, you can select the value and complexity of components within the laptop but only from a narrow list.

I just looked on Tiger Direct, and they do offer a range of OS, "none" is no longer an option, at least online.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hero_Mike (Post 1716285)
I did think of a situation where it is advantageous to buy a computer without an OS. It's when you're replacing an existing computer and you still have a valid OS license, but a computer that won't run.

There is still the fact that the OS is really a small portion of the price of a PC. You can still (possibly) install the old OS on the new computer, but it really isn't cost effective for large companies to sell PCs with no OS loaded.

ganzfeld 25 February 2013 07:29 AM

I think it's around 3 to 5%, nothing to scoff at but negligible considering that, well, you do need an OS, hardly anyone's using a free one, and even the people who are sometimes end up needing a mainstream one. The tiny minority who complain about the fact that they can't get a machine without an OS doesn't seem to be very aware of the fact that they wouldn't get a whole lot off the for leaving the OS out even if there were some reason for the OEMs to offer that option.

Wolf333 25 February 2013 07:45 AM

Exactly, Ganzfeld. And if there is a situation where a company needs a bunch of computers without an OS for some reason, they probably are not going through normal consumer channels.

Troberg 25 February 2013 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snopes (Post 1716002)
It is true that many OEMs have bundling agreements with Microsoft to sell their computers with Windows installed on them, and that computer retailers therefore cannot simply wipe the operating system off such PCs prior to selling them.

Yep, they often claim that, and that it would be illegal for them to do so, but it's just a sales trick. It's perfectly legal, and most retailers will rethink their position if you simply say "OK, then I'll go and buy it somewhere else...".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hero_Mike (Post 1716285)
Here's a question - is it possible to purchase a laptop without an OS?

Yep, most dealers will sell without an OS if you put some pressure on them.

If not, just don't click on any "Agree"-button and instead call Microsoft and say that you do not agree with the terms, and want, as promised, a full refund. They don't like it, but they will give you some money, although, only about one tenth of the shelf price. I think there is an upcoming court case here where someone is questioning how "a full refund" can be 10% of the shelf price, it'll be interesting to see how it ends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hero_Mike (Post 1716285)
I did think of a situation where it is advantageous to buy a computer without an OS. It's when you're replacing an existing computer and you still have a valid OS license, but a computer that won't run. About 15 years ago, we had a rash of computer failures where the motherboard and power supply would fail together. These were a bunch of store-built "white boxes" long past their one-year warranty. A new computer was more economical than merely replacing the components on the old one, since 2 or 3 years later you got more for the same money. So we recovered the files from the old hard-drive and had a much-improved PC, but it still used the same OS. This is back in the days where there was no "improvement" upon Windows 98 (Windows NT, Windows ME) until Windows 2000 became established after its first Service pack rolled out - at least 3 years, if not more, where Win 98 SE was the "best" thing available.

I can think of several reasons:

* You don't want that OS. You want Linux or BSD or some older Windows (that you probably already have a pile of legitimate licenses for).

* You already have legitimate licenses 1. This is very common with companies, as they often buy their licenses separately, or simply have a pile of unused licenses.

* You already have legitimate licenses 2. It could be that an older computer is switched out, and you transfer the license from that computer. Now, license transfers rules differ between different jurisdictions and license types. If you buy a license off the shelf, you are usually free to transfer it, but if it's an OEM license, then you are probably not. Then again, in some jurisdictions, licenses are bound to a person only, and OEM restrictions does not apply (for example in Sweden). Also, in Sweden, any license you can't read before you buy (ie, it's inside the shrink wrap) does not apply.

* You already have legitimate licenses 3. If you have a MSDN subscription, you have the licenses needed to setup a development/test machine. Why buy again?

* You are going to use the computer for some specialized task, such as media player, firewall, web server, mail server and so on, requiring only a very minimal specialized OS (usually free and included in the server product).

* The preinstalled OS is usually a bloated beast, and you prefer to do your own install.

I've encountered all of these myself.

Mad Jay 25 February 2013 10:55 AM

People who install a Linux variant over Windows on a new machine tend to have philosophical differences with Microsoft. It's not really about buying a computer without OS. It's more about buying a computer without Microsoft.

Wintermute 25 February 2013 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hero_Mike (Post 1716285)
Essentially, you can't "build" a laptop from scratch like a desktop - sure, you can select the value and complexity of components within the laptop but only from a narrow list.

Actually there are places to buy the parts to do it. I didn't see any cost savings by doing it. So I think it just appeals to people who want to build their own laptop. Normally the case and screen come together and then after that you add your own wifi, video, memory, processor, etc

Troberg 26 February 2013 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Jay (Post 1716324)
People who install a Linux variant over Windows on a new machine tend to have philosophical differences with Microsoft. It's not really about buying a computer without OS. It's more about buying a computer without Microsoft.

Exactly. Why should I have to pay Microsoft when I don't use their stuff, and find their business practices (and products) appalling?

Sure, I have a few Windows computers, but they are valid OEM licenses. Most computers I have, though, are various flavours of Linux. Why pay a "Microsoft tax" for something Microsoft has in no way contributed to?

snopes 26 February 2013 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troberg (Post 1716317)
Yep, they often claim that, and that it would be illegal for them to do so, but it's just a sales trick. It's perfectly legal, and most retailers will rethink their position if you simply say "OK, then I'll go and buy it somewhere else...".

Not so. It may not be "illegal" (i.e., a violation of criminal law) for computer retailers to remove the operating systems from bundled computers, but it's a violation of their contract with the OEMs and they are therefore not at liberty to do so.

Quote:

If not, just don't click on any "Agree"-button and instead call Microsoft and say that you do not agree with the terms, and want, as promised, a full refund. They don't like it, but they will give you some money
Actually, they'll tell you that the licensing terms are an agreement between you and the OEM that distributes the software, so you need to contact the OEM to obtain a refund.

snopes 26 February 2013 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troberg (Post 1716716)
Why should I have to pay Microsoft when I don't use their stuff, and find their business practices (and products) appalling?

Nobody's forcing you to buy a Windows-bundled computer. If you don't want to pay for Microsoft products, buy a computer that doesn't come with them.

Skeptic 27 February 2013 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snopes (Post 1716916)
Nobody's forcing you to buy a Windows-bundled computer. If you don't want to pay for Microsoft products, buy a computer that doesn't come with them.

Which takes us back to the issue I first raised, which is being told that they can't sell you one because it's illegal.

erwins 27 February 2013 01:16 AM

But as several people have pointed out, "they" isn't everyone. The only places that won't sell them to you are ones that have contracts with Microsoft in which they promise not to. There are many small computer businesses that will do so, and of course anyone with the necessary skills and knowledge--or a willingness to obtain them--can build their own box. Computers without a Windows operating system are not hard to buy, they just can't be bought from certain vendors.

ganzfeld 27 February 2013 01:52 AM

I can allow them some wiggle room on the use of the word illegal. It's against a legally binding contract.

As for Who's Afraid of Big Bad Redmond, this year more devices without a Microsoft operating system than with will connect to the Internet. It's not as if Microsoft forced everybody to use their stuff all these years. Frankly, they just did it better than anyone else, where "better" is not necessarily something that I personally care for but the consumers voted with their wallets. (I'll use Windows 8 for the first time this week. Fortunately for MS, my expectations are very low!) In a very short time, another Big Bad Wolf will take over and you can quit whinging about Microsoft.

snopes 27 February 2013 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptic (Post 1716995)
Which takes us back to the issue I first raised, which is being told that they can't sell you one because it's illegal.

"We can't sell a computer without software" isn't the same thing as "We can"t sell a computer without Microsoft Windows." There are plenty of non-Microsoft programs and OS in the world.

Troberg 27 February 2013 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snopes (Post 1716915)
Not so. It may not be "illegal" (i.e., a violation of criminal law) for computer retailers to remove the operating systems from bundled computers, but it's a violation of their contract with the OEMs and they are therefore not at liberty to do so.

Perhaps not from bundled computers, but there is nothing preventing them from selling computers not bundled with Microsoft stuff. Most countries have laws specifically forbidding such contracts as they are not considered fair competition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snopes (Post 1716916)
Actually, they'll tell you that the licensing terms are an agreement between you and the OEM that distributes the software, so you need to contact the OEM to obtain a refund.

Actually, I've done that dance, and after being bounced around for a while, it was Microsoft that reimbursed me (at about 1/10 of shelf values, but still...).

I also did check with the consumer ombudsman, and she said that I was entitled to a full refund, but it would probably cost me much more than I would gain to drag it through the legal system, so I didn't bother.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snopes (Post 1716916)
Nobody's forcing you to buy a Windows-bundled computer. If you don't want to pay for Microsoft products, buy a computer that doesn't come with them.

Actually, it's not that simple. Most manufacturers make crappy computers (especially laptops, which I can't build myself). If I want a good laptop, I'm pretty much limited to ASUS, high end HP and Toshiba. Of these, only ASUS sells without Windows, and only on the low end machines.

So, if you are not prepared to nag the sales person a great deal, you will get Windows, like it or not.

Luckily, there are still a few dealers which sells never used second hand laptops (usually from companies that has ordered too many). There, I can buy good laptops without having to get the Microsoft crap, and at a good price as well.

----

The thing is, that this is damaging on a grand scale. The entire capitalist model depends on the customer making informed decisions. By taking away the practical ability to make a decision at all, indeed, even hiding the fact that there is a decision that can be made, the model collapse. Quality and price is no longer guaranteed by the rules of a fair competition, as there is no longer any incentive to improve products or pricing, just to fence in market shares by signing deals that affect the customers way up over the head of the customers in the production chain.

Development slows down or stalls, as money is easier to obtain by paperwork. Customers does not benefit from that.

We already see the results, with Microsoft not even trying to improve their products, just adding a new layer of paint and some useless features in each release.

Also, there is no incentive for them to cooperate with other products, in fact, they do everything they can to create their own "Microsoft World". Once again, this is bad for customers, bad for technology and only benefits Microsoft.

I really, really hope that the proposition that is underway in the EU parliament, which would make it illegal to sell computers with an OS passes. That would offer a true choice for the consumer, and by showing the consumer that there is a choice, would level the playfield.

snopes 03 March 2013 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troberg (Post 1717048)
Perhaps not from bundled computers, but there is nothing preventing them from selling computers not bundled with Microsoft stuff.

Aside from lack of consumer interest in such a product, that is.

Quote:

Actually, I've done that dance, and after being bounced around for a while, it was Microsoft that reimbursed me
Not in North America:

http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/prod...nd/refund.mspx

What Products Are Not Eligible for a Refund?
Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) software preloaded on a PC (contact the PC manufacturer)

Quote:

at about 1/10 of shelf value
You didn't pay shelf value for it, so why should you expect a shelf value refund for it?

Quote:

Actually, it's not that simple. Most manufacturers make crappy computers (especially laptops, which I can't build myself). If I want a good laptop, I'm pretty much limited to ASUS, high end HP and Toshiba. Of these, only ASUS sells without Windows, and only on the low end machines.
Actually, it is that simple. You apparently just aren't looking very hard and/or have unreasonable standards.

Mimi 09 March 2013 02:33 AM

Well, I don't know all the fancy computer jargon, but I thought I'd weigh in with my own personal experience. The last two computers I purchased were from a store down the street from my parents' house. The second computer I bought after the first was about 5 years old and seriously needed an upgrade. Usually my dad does this but when we went into the computer store for the second computer, the guy had a computer already built that was basically what I was looking for that was a little less than I was planning on spending anyway, so I went with that. It already had Windows installed on it but it was a different version from the one I had on my old computer. However, since I already had a Windows version, code and all, I wanted to just install that on the computer. The guy took Windows off for me and knocked that off the price and my dad installed my old Windows copy on the computer. This store is a sort of mom and pop set up. Just two guys work there full time, one being the owner. It's like a step up from people who build and sell computers out of their basements.

diddy 09 March 2013 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganzfeld (Post 1717004)
Frankly, they just did it better than anyone else, where "better" is not necessarily something that I personally care for but the consumers voted with their wallets.

It's not as simple as that. MS got really lucky with IBM - linking DOS to IBM computers and the early IBM clones made PC's much more affordable. Back in the old days the business mantra was "nobody got fired by buying IBM".

Trouble was IBM thought that their name alone was good enough to keep buyers. Once IBM compatible systems came on the market and you can get DOS it was basically game over for everyone else. Microsoft then started its OEM agreements once they realized that they had something making it very difficult to get any traction. It wasn't so much that people voted with their wallet - MS got lucky with IBM missing the boat big time and giving them a huge advantage in the market. MS might have not gotten so big without cloning.

Of course there were other factors and "cheap computers running the same OS that the office uses" did play a factor in it, but MS did get very lucky with IBM which is what people were really attracted to. That and some pretty predatory licensing. Eventually consumer wallets went with MS since there was nobody left with any real advantages going for it.

ETA: That is all my recollection of what I have read from some brief history about MS dealings with IBM. I may have some facts wrong but my understanding is that without IBM, things could have been very different IMHO.

ganzfeld 09 March 2013 12:42 PM

Sure, they just got lucky. That's what all the companies who lost that battle would like us to believe. I'm not buying it. You don't just "get lucky" for 30 years. Something they were doing was right. It wasn't elegant or original but business is a battle. What matters is who gets it done. I'm not a Microsoft fan at all but there's no point ignoring the facts. They have helped more people get more work done than just about any other company on the planet. That's a fact.

Yes, they managed to get their foot in the door but so many other platforms could have and many of them even did. Where are they today? Osbourne, Commodore, Xerox, even the original Apple… Many of them had better chances than MS but they blew it in one way or another. That's not luck.

angrybird 03 April 2014 03:04 AM

before. we bought computers and installed an operating system in house.
Up until a few years ago, they all came with an open source OS disk. We ended up with hundreds of these. Dell would not sell a bare metal computer without some form of OS bundled with it.
Now, we buy them with a Windows license that we use when we take them out of service.

flyboywiz 18 February 2016 04:22 AM

It makes no sense that selling a computer without software is illegal. What about bare bones PCs? Maybe you are referring to computers sold at stores like Best Buy?


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