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-   -   New cars must be bought from Ford or GM (http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=59080)

snopes 25 March 2010 08:32 PM

New cars must be bought from Ford or GM
 
Comment: Today I just learned from someone I spoke with in Washington DC that
Congress is about to vote on and is expected to pass a bill which the Pres.
has already stated he will sign requiring anyone who purchases or leases a
new car or light weight truck after June 30, 2010 must do so from either
General Motors or Ford in order to support the investment the Fed Gov't made
in the auto industry bail out. Any vehicle purchased from an auto co. other
than General Motors or Ford, will require the purchaser to pay a fed tax of
15% of the retail LIST PRICE of the car purchased. If the purchase or lease
is made by corporate employer, the responsibility of repayment of the new
federal tax will be the responsibility of the individual who makes use of
the vehicle. The bill also mandates that each state DMV is required to send
a copy of all new vehicles registrations licensed in that state to the IRS
for compliance and enforcement purposes.

In the same conversation, I was also told there is a good deal of talk in
the Congress to create other bills establishing the same strategy that will
applicable toward durable goods (e.g. washing machines, refrigerators,
furniture, carpeting, etc.); clothes; all electronics; certain food items;
durable medical equipment and medical "tourism". The one relating to
durable goods will mandate that every legal resident in the U.S. must
purchase new items every five to seven years, depending on the item.
Records of all such transactions must be reported by the seller, to the IRS for
compliance and enforcement purposes.

When I asked what was driving all of this, I was told all of this is
considered constitutionally valid under the interstate commerce clause of
the U.S. Constitution and that there are numerous members of Congress who
believe these measures will also significantly enhance their ability to
raise significant political contributions from corporations based upon the
recent U.S. Supreme Court decision proclaiming that corporation have the
same constitutional rights of individual persons.

Anyhow, I just thought you might be interested to learn of this.

RichardM 25 March 2010 09:01 PM

Given that Ford did not receive any Federal money, this is not based on fact.

lynnejanet 25 March 2010 09:39 PM

Aside from the obvious tip-off that RichardM mentions, there are a couple of other clues that this is not based on any real legislation.
Quote:

Any vehicle purchased from an auto co. other
than General Motors or Ford, will require the purchaser to pay a fed tax of 15% of the retail LIST PRICE of the car purchased. If the purchase or lease is made by corporate employer, the responsibility of repayment of the new federal tax will be the responsibility of the individual who makes use of the vehicle.
This is obvious, unenforcable nonsense. Company owned vehicles are rarely driven by just one employee. And if one was, there is no way that that employee could be required to a tax for use of the vehicle.
Quote:

The one relating to
durable goods will mandate that every legal resident in the U.S. must purchase new items every five to seven years, depending on the item.
Again, utter nonsense and completely unenforcable. Can you imagine the administration it would require to keep track of purchases and force people to buy things?

babyshoes 25 March 2010 09:47 PM

Paranoia springs eternal. :rolleyes: Really, someone could listen to that and actually wonder if it's true?

Roadsterboy 25 March 2010 10:40 PM

What if I want to buy a Dodge Challenger?

-RB

DawnStorm 25 March 2010 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babyshoes (Post 1185583)
Paranoia springs eternal. ?


No, it runs deep. (thank you Buffalo Springfield)
I just can't believe that there are people out there who actually beleive this stuff.

Dawn--..into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid..--Storm

Dr. Winston O'Boogie 26 March 2010 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnStorm (Post 1185648)
No, it runs deep. (thank you Buffalo Springfield)
I just can't believe that there are people out there who actually beleive this stuff.

Dawn--..into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid..--Storm

Step out of line, the man come and take you away.

musicgeek 26 March 2010 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Winston O'Boogie (Post 1186200)
Step out of line, the man come and take you away.

What's with the hijack? I think it's time we stop. children, what's that sound, everybody look what's goin' down...

Well, there's my earworm for the day.

RichardM 26 March 2010 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadsterboy (Post 1185642)
What if I want to buy a Dodge Challenger?

-RB

Sorry, Dodges are now Fiats.

BoKu 26 March 2010 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardM (Post 1186335)
Sorry, Dodges are now Fiats.

In the last two weeks I replaced the radiator and the oil pressure switch on my Dodge Neon. This weekend I am replacing the heater core, which requires the removal of the entire dashboard, including the steering wheel, instruments, and both airbags.

I'm beginning think that Fiat might be a good influence on those guys...

RichardM 26 March 2010 08:36 PM

Since summer is almost here and I am lazy, I would be tempted to just loop the water hoses together and leave the heater coil out of the loop. On the other hand, it is still cool enough that working on the car won't be too unpleasant. Myself, I am off this weekend to find good rally roads northwest of Dallas.

BoKu 26 March 2010 10:18 PM

I did loop the hoses as a temporary fix. But around here it's still a bit on the chilly side to try to go without at least a little heat.

Roadsterboy 26 March 2010 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardM (Post 1186335)
Sorry, Dodges are now Fiats.

Does Fiat own a majority stake yet?

-RB

babyshoes 26 March 2010 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnStorm (Post 1185648)
No, it runs deep. (thank you Buffalo Springfield)

I had completely forgotten that song! Time for an iTunes search...I'm introducing my children to the joys of what Mommy listened to way back when. :lol:

RichardM 27 March 2010 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadsterboy (Post 1186503)
Does Fiat own a majority stake yet?

-RB

I think so but I don't know for sure.

I like to joke that when I bought my Dodge pickup less than two years ago, I actually bought a Mercedes for cheap. Now I say I have an expensive Fiat.

Mr. Furious 27 March 2010 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardM (Post 1186582)
I like to joke that when I bought my Dodge pickup less than two years ago, I actually bought a Mercedes for cheap. Now I say I have an expensive Fiat.

When I was in college, we regularly made fun of one of our friends who had a Jeep Grand Cherokee by calling it a Chrysler. He hated that, which, of course, led to us continuing to do it. :lol:

Katness 27 March 2010 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadsterboy (Post 1185642)
What if I want to buy a Dodge Challenger?

-RB

Then do it quick!

Got mine last August. :D

Amigone201 27 March 2010 03:07 AM

Half-jokingly, this actually might be enforceable under the Commerce Clause. Courts have held the Commerce Clause to give Congress basically the power to do whatever it wants as long as someone says "Oh yeah, and interstate commerce."

Roadsterboy 27 March 2010 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardM (Post 1186582)
I think so but I don't know for sure.

Finally got a chance to look it up-Fiat owns 20%. I don't know if this is a majority stake, in business terms. It is surely a significant chunk.

I'd be happy if the Fiat/Chrysler hookup would finally enable me to buy a new Alfa Romeo. And if I could afford to buy such a thing in the first place.

-RB

Roadsterboy 27 March 2010 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Furious (Post 1186586)
When I was in college, we regularly made fun of one of our friends who had a Jeep Grand Cherokee by calling it a Chrysler.

I liked to call my sister's Grand Cherokee an "AMC", which she didn't get but my Dad certainly did.

-RB

Eddylizard 27 March 2010 05:36 AM

IIRC technically a majority stake is 51%.

But if there are a number of other stockeholders all of which individually own less than 20% then you have a good chance of carrying the vote your way at an AGM or EGM. A lot of small stockholders don't even bother attending or voting in these, and some of the others might agree with you.

snakeseare 27 March 2010 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadsterboy (Post 1186737)
I'd be happy if the Fiat/Chrysler hookup would finally enable me to buy a new Alfa Romeo. And if I could afford to buy such a thing in the first place.

-RB

Alfa makes plenty of cars that are no more expensive than Ford or Chevy. And they are lauded as nice cars. The problem is that depreciation is horrendous. That's the situation in Europe at any rate. In the US, Alfa is still a mystique marque, as your post suggests, instead of just another badge making mostly sedans with a reputation for Italian reliability, as they are in Europe. I drove an Alfa around the Hockenheimring in 1987. It was greatly inferior to the old ragged-out Ford Taunus (yes, Taunus) I was driving at the time.

All that aside, Chrysler needs to die. There are no worse cars, from an engineering standpoint, being made in the world today. I've driven quite enough to know they are junk, including the rental PT Cruiser with 11k miles that I thought was going to throw a halfshaft. I returned it,and was given a replacement, and told they got that complaint all the time. The new one, with 8k on the clock, had the same vibration, just to a lesser extent. If that had been my only experience with Chrysler (lack of) quality, I would not be bothering with this post, but I had previously rented a Neon that was equally appalling, and driven a company-provided New Yorker for an extended period. I gave the New Yorker back and bought a 15-year-old VW which was more reliable and nicer to drive. Handy hint: when your flagship luxury sedan can't compete with an econobox 10 years older, you suck.

The VW in question:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...l/GTICreek.jpg

Oh, and the ragged-out Ford Taunus:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ol/Taunus1.jpg

Jay Temple 28 March 2010 03:50 AM

Whether it's true or not, I thought the "Cash for Clunkers" program would have been a much better idea if the cash could only be used to buy from one of the American automakers that were in trouble. As Fred Armisen said in character as President Obama, "[It} did wonders for the economy ... of Japan."

Eddylizard 28 March 2010 04:18 AM

Do you even know though if your car ostensibly from a US company was actually made in the US?

My current car is a Vauxhaull - amongst the biggest of the UK's mass production car companies. Scratch a little deep into the facts and it was made almost entirely in France.

Ford UK build engines in Wales. Most of the other components come from other European countries, and are assembled for the most part in Spain.

My old Daewoo (Korean) had components made in the US.

My old Fiat was entirely built in Poland.

The marque is no guarantee of where the jobs are going.

Roadsterboy 28 March 2010 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddylizard (Post 1187133)
Do you even know though if your car ostensibly from a US company was actually made in the US?

Quote:

The marque is no guarantee of where the jobs are going.
My favorite example of this is the Ford Crown Victoria/Mercury Marquis, which is made in Canada (and at one point in the 90's they contained enough local content to qualify as imported cars in the States).

-RB

crescent 28 March 2010 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddylizard (Post 1187133)
Do you even know though if your car ostensibly from a US company was actually made in the US?.

Kind of like my Mazda. On the door panel, my "Japanese" truck says "Made in America, by Ford".

If 'they' were to order us to buy Ford or GM to pay back the money Ford never borrowed in the first place, could I buy a Mazda?

Eddylizard 28 March 2010 05:14 AM

Kind of like Honda have an assembly plant in Swindon UK - though it has had some rough times recently.

firefighter_raven 28 March 2010 02:49 PM

Or my Toyota Tacoma that was made in the US. Always found it amusing being told I should of bought "American" by people driving their Canadian made Ford truck.

Don Enrico 29 March 2010 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Temple (Post 1187125)
Whether it's true or not, I thought the "Cash for Clunkers" program would have been a much better idea if the cash could only be used to buy from one of the American automakers that were in trouble. As Fred Armisen said in character as President Obama, "[It} did wonders for the economy ... of Japan."


Apart from "American" cars not necessarily being build in America (as others pointed out), and "foreign" cars being build in America (Toyota runs several manufacturing plants in the US, having build more than 16 million cars there), what's wrong with saving jobs in the import industrie, the seaports, long distance transport and car resale? All of these industries profit from buying imported cars.

Don Enrico

Dr. Winston O'Boogie 30 March 2010 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babyshoes (Post 1186548)
I had completely forgotten that song! Time for an iTunes search...I'm introducing my children to the joys of what Mommy listened to way back when. :lol:

(showing my age a bit here) I remember the Muppets doing a version of that with drunk hunters going after small furry creatures. I might have to search You Tube for that when I get home (You Tube is blocked at work).

BoKu 30 March 2010 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoKu (Post 1186490)
I did loop the hoses as a temporary fix. But around here it's still a bit on the chilly side to try to go without at least a little heat.

OT: I did change that heater core this weekend. It was not a big job, just a bunch of small jobs stacked on each other.

But you do have to take out a few things to do it...

http://www.hpaircraft.com/neon/100_2344a.JPG

HelloLlama 04 April 2010 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefighter_raven (Post 1187229)
Or my Toyota Tacoma that was made in the US. Always found it amusing being told I should of bought "American" by people driving their Canadian made Ford truck.

Ford F-150s (the vehicle comparable to the Tacoma) are made in Dearborn and Kansas City. So, no, they are not Canadian made. If you are going to use this argument, at least make it using a vehicle assembled outside of the US.

firefighter_raven 04 April 2010 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelloLlama (Post 1191299)
Ford F-150s (the vehicle comparable to the Tacoma) are made in Dearborn and Kansas City. So, no, they are not Canadian made. If you are going to use this argument, at least make it using a vehicle assembled outside of the US.

You mean like my former coworkers crew cab that was made around '03 before they shifted the truck manufacturing from Oakville,Ontario, Canada to Dearborn?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_F-Series Half way down the page under tenth generation, little box on the right under assembly plant.

AnglRdr 04 April 2010 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakeseare (Post 1186770)
All that aside, Chrysler needs to die. There are no worse cars, from an engineering standpoint, being made in the world today. I've driven quite enough to know they are junk, including the rental PT Cruiser with 11k miles that I thought was going to throw a halfshaft. I returned it,and was given a replacement, and told they got that complaint all the time. The new one, with 8k on the clock, had the same vibration, just to a lesser extent. If that had been my only experience with Chrysler (lack of) quality, I would not be bothering with this post, but I had previously rented a Neon that was equally appalling, and driven a company-provided New Yorker for an extended period.

My experience has been exactly the opposite. I had an LHS and have a Pacifica, and had zero problems with either. They are the most comfortable vehicles I have ever driven or ridden in and happily recommend them to others.

Mileages obviously vary.

crescent 04 April 2010 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelloLlama (Post 1191299)
Ford F-150s (the vehicle comparable to the Tacoma) are made in Dearborn and Kansas City. So, no, they are not Canadian made. If you are going to use this argument, at least make it using a vehicle assembled outside of the US.

I thought the Ford Ranger was the equivalent of the Tacoma? The F-150 would be equivalent to the Tundra.

As I stated previously, my Mazda truck basically a Ford Ranger, and was made in America.

HelloLlama 05 April 2010 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefighter_raven (Post 1191314)
You mean like my former coworkers crew cab that was made around '03 before they shifted the truck manufacturing from Oakville,Ontario, Canada to Dearborn?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_F-Series Half way down the page under tenth generation, little box on the right under assembly plant.

Well, referring to the OP, if the government required you to buy a new American Made car, it wouldn't be a 2003 model, now, would it? :)

Crescent, you're right. I was confusing the Tacoma with the Tundra. But, as you said, the Ranger/Mazda B-series trucks are currently made in America.


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